Performance upgrade went south By Triker98304 (Read 1,816 times)

[Triker98304]

I have an Icebear Trike 150-9. I was getting about 50-55 mph top end. Since I live in a rual area and have to drive highways I decided to upgrade with performance parts. I ordered a performance variator, slider, CDI, coil, coil wire, spark plug, carb jets, clutch spring, clutch, kevalar belt and header pipe and muffler from ScrappyDog Scooters for only $393.00.

The parts arrived, the header pipe and muffler were for a regular scooter not the trike. After 3 weeks of sending emails I was told to send the pipe and muffler back at my expense. In return a store credit was issued. I do not know for how much. but a credit was there.

I nstalled the CDI and coil. Had to look all over the trike to find the CDI. On my trike it was in the nose section up by the handle bars. The coil at the rear of the trike follow the spark pluf wire. Changed the spark plug and wire.

Now for the hard stuff...the clutch and variator. The variator did not look much different than the original but they were the parts master, me just a dummy. It was installed. The idler sleeve was a little tight. I thought it was performance related, no problem. It was installed and torgued down. The clutch assembly was taken apart with out any problems, I watched the videos on u-tube for help. And searched this forum. No problem wverything went together seemingly fine. Took the trike out fot the maiden voyage. got 1/2 mile from home a loud metal clank and the the belt, variator and slider went flying into the woods. I managed to find 2 broken sliders and the variator backing plate,,,nothing else.

I called ScrappyDog and they said there was a warranty on the variator if a "qualified shop had installed it". But since I did the work no coverage. Since ScrappyDog owed me for the pipe and muffler they sent me another variator, sliders and belt. I could not wait to get the parts installed and feel the enhanced speed...WRONG.

I had lost 15mph. I could do 45mph. So I thought the carb had to be the problem. I trailered my trike 70 miles to have the carb re-jetted. The shop I took it to had great testimonials. They did re-jet the carb. When I picked up the scooter I was told that ScrappyDog had sent me two main jets and that I would have to get an idle jet or put up with a slight hesitation on take off. Well almost $300.00 later I picked up the trike expecting miracles...

Miracles were not received. The bike still ran at 45 mph...with a sputter and hesitation. So I put every thing but the carb and the new kevalar belt back to stock. The trike runs at 45 mph.

So after about $$$$ the trike runs worse than it originally did. I living in the dog house, you married guys know what I am talking about... trying to figure this whole mess out. Any expert advise would be helpful...

Buyer beware of the suppliers and repair shops when you start upgrading...Triker98304

[Alleyoop]

Triker,
Feel very bad about all you went through. But next time before buying performance parts please ask. I could of told you about the So Called Performance Variator from Scrappydogs, it is NOT I have one sitting in my garage.
Ok since you put everything thing back I think your main problem is the Carb with the bigger Jets. Did you also change out the Air Filter and put on a Uni or something? If NOT you do not need any re-jetting Trust me. Even if you did put on a UNI or Some type of Free Flow, always try to adjust with the Air/Fuel Mixture and the Diaphgram Needle before rejetting. Re-jetting and Free Flow Filter will not do anything unless you also free up the exhaust with a Performance Muffler or a less restrictive muffler.

So the first thing is to put back the Orginal Jets back in your Carb. By the way what size Jets did they put in?
Alleyoop

[rapidjim]

I agree with everything that Alley said!

To many people are buying "performance Parts" that are NOT the real deal. Nothing against scrappy, he has great prices on what he sells, but it isn't always what it is cracked up to be.

In my opinion, there is no replacement for displacement! Sure if you have a machine that is jetted lean from the factory to pass emissions, rejetting will give you a small gain. A kevlar belt is more for longivety than for speed. Perfomance CDI, now this one is out for debate. If you have a rev limited CDI, then by all means change it to a non-rev limited type. Be very careful not to over rev your motor. We have found that most CDI's that are marketed as "performance" are nothing more than a non rev limited CDI. There are some out there that have an adjustment screw on them that actually does change the spark timing, but these are not meant for a stock motor or for folks that don't have the equipment to set them up properly. You can do serious motor damage if you use the trial and error method. Performance coils do deliver a hotter spark, and do help with completely burning the fuel, but once again it is a small gain. There are gains to be had from CVT tuning, changing the weights in your variator, clutch springs and even a true perfomance variator and clutch set up. Tire size change can help also.

Bottom line, if you want to go faster, displacement is the way to go.

Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair

[Triker98304]

Here is the response I got asking about the DR PULLEY Variator.

The transmissions on these vehicles cannot give more power (or by extension, top speed) in and of themselves. When modifying your transmission, you're actually tuning the power you already have to one use or another by shifting where the RPM power band lies. In a nutshell, you're either tuning for top end at the expense of low end, or vice versa, and the middle ground gives an unsatisfactory amount of both - which is the reason you're wanting to mod it in the first place!


The only true way to get more power out of your system is to alter the air/fuel system of the vehicle: air intake, carburetor (or not, if your system uses EFI), cylinder head, big bore kit, and exhaust. Altering any one (or preferably more) of these will increase the overall amount of power the engine is capable of producing and then you can tune the transmission as you see fit. The good news is: it really works. The bad news is: it isn't always inexpensive, but it's less expensive than a bigger scooter!


To answer your question, the Dr Pulley variator has the potential to give you more top end, but it's no guarantee right out the box. The variator is larger than the stock one in diameter, and therefore a slightly larger than stock belt can ride up farther on the ramp and give you potentially more top speed than a stock variator. The key is the slightly larger in circumference belt that is longer so that you can take advantage of the extra variator real estate.


A secondary consideration is the slider weights, as you've discovered. Lighter weights shift the RPM power range to the low end, at the expense of the top speed (regardless of whether they're roller or sliders, they affect the transmission in a similar fashion). Heavier weights will shift the power curve to the top end, at the expense of low end grunt, acceleration, and power when under load. Keep in mind that heavier weights do not necessarily equal higher speeds.


One of the reasons that lighter weights do not give higher top speeds is because their lighter mass (weight) does not allow them to overcome through centrifugal force the spring tension of the main large clutch spring pressure placed on the belt. Your clutch main spring is constantly working against the slider/roller weights to prevent them from "shifting" into higher gear ratios. If the spring tension is higher than the centrifugal outward force, then the belt will never extend all the way out on the variator and you lose top speed (you'll probably have great low end takeoff speed, though!)


Heavier weights can overcome the spring tension and allow the belt to ride all the way up on the variator, giving you the full variator range to work with, and therefore the highest potential speed the transmission will allow. The problem is that it will try to "shift" you very quickly to a higher gear, kind of like starting a stick shift car in 2nd gear from a dead stop and trying to climb a hill: it may get going but it won't be fast and the vehicle won't like it much!


By modding the air/fuel system and giving the engine more overall power, you're gaining true power than can be used in a balanced CVT system for both low end and top speed. Transmission mods alone will generally only net you a couple of mph at most and often require a sacrifice in other ways. Engine mods give power at all levels and sacrifice nothing aside from the cost of the mod.


Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Regards,

Michael Baird
Owner - Buggy Parts NW


Thank you Michael Baird for the information.

Guess I need a bigger engine
Triker98304

[Alleyoop]

Triker98304,
Yes, Michael from Buggyspartsnw is correct there are only a few things you can do to get the most of a stock motor. Right now my Trike is out of Gearing. For more Top End have taller tires which really help a lot, the 29 tooth front Sprocket and the Prodigy Variator and a free flow Supertrapp Muffler. For better spark I have the Purple CDI, Performance Coil and Iridium Plug. So now I am going to put in Taller Gear in the Tranny. If I find that the motor needs more power I will put in a 61mm BBK to bring it up to around 170ccs.

Or maybe just go for the GUSTO put in a 63mm which is around 180cc since most likely with a 61mm the case needs to be bored out anywhos ;D
Alleyoop