stubborn starting problem a.k.a. name that noise By 80ccsofawesome (Read 1,575 times)

[80ccsofawesome]

This is the sound my Honda Elite CH80 scooter makes when I try to start it:



A few weeks ago I stupidly left it out in a rainstorm and the next day it wouldn't start. After charging the battery and replacing the sparkplug, it would start up, but only after several attempts at opening the throttle and pressing the starter button. I replaced the air filter, but that didn't help. I found that when cold, the engine would take 10-15 attempts before it finally started. After warming it up, it would start up with much fewer attempts, sometimes even on the first try, which had me thinking the problem was with the choke. However, one day it just quit on me altogether and wouldn't start at all. I then replaced the choke/bystarter (aka "starting enrichment thermal valve" in honda parlance) with a brand new one, but that didn't help.

Now I'm stuck. It seems like the problem is somewhere in the electrical system, but I don't know where and I don't know how to diagnose it. This is the horrible noise I've been hearing all along; maybe someone who knows more than I do can tell what's wrong from the sound? Oh, and one more detail: I don't have to complete the full circuit to get it to start. i.e., it normally requires the key turned, the brake pressed and the switch turned to "run" before pressing the starter button & opening the throttle would do anything. now, i can press the starter button and get the same godawful noise independent of whether the switch is set from "off" to "run" or if the brake is pressed. the only thing that will cut the circuit off is if the key isn't turned to the ignition position.

[Alleyoop]

Well right off the bat, I can tell you your battery is very weak. You need to first trickle charge your battery so it can turn the motor over faster.

Normally you turn the KEY on the KILL SWITCH MUST be on the RUN position then you have to Squeeze the brake which sends voltage to the Soleniod then to the Starter.

It is turning the motor over BUT NOT FAST enough for it to start because of the weak battery.

So from the Video everything electrical seems to be working except the battery is to weak.
Alleyoop

[tvnacman]

I agree alley , that is a weak battery .

John

[Bashan]

First pull the plug and see if it will spin easily by turning the nut on the cooling fan. Then pull the battery and take it to a auto weinies and have them LOAD test it. Put it back in the bike if the battery is OK and hit the starter with the plug out. Tell me what happens. Rich

[sprocket]

It isn't firing I don't think... do those have a DC CDI powered from the battery as well?

[80ccsofawesome]

Thanks guys... the battery was indeed pretty drained (measured at 11.2 on my voltmeter), and after a good trickle charge, the scooter started up like a charm.

Rich, do you think I still need to get the battery load tested?

sprocket, i have no idea how the CDI is powered! or if it even has a CDI...

[roketafan]

check the water in it to if low use distilled water

[Alleyoop]

Ride it around, and then after a good run check the battery and see if it was charging while you were riding. If after riding it around and the battery voltage drops then your Scoot is not charging it. If you charge it and you do not use it and the Volatage drops then you know it is NOT HOLDING a charge and a new battery is needed.

Or you can take it out and take it to have it LOAD TESTED, not just to see how many volts it shows.
Alleyoop

[80ccsofawesome]

Hi again guys... the battery is holding a charge pretty well, and the previous owner had replaced it with a brand new one just before I bought it, so I don't think it's the battery. My suspicion is that pressing the starter button so many times to get the engine started is draining the battery more than the bike is charging it, at least with the short runs for which I typically use it (one mile to work and back).

Alleyoop: how long would i need to ride the bike, do you think, before i could see a bump in the measured battery voltage? and what's a healthy ratio in terms of engine run time vs. battery charge?

[Bashan]

Try checking the charging system then you won't have any doubts. Get a multimeter and put the positive on the red pole of the battery and the neg on the black. Start the engine and give it a few revs. You should see about 12.5 to 14.5 v DC on the meter. If not your charging system is faulty. Rich

[80ccsofawesome]

Okay, so I haven't checked the charging system but I'm pretty sure it's not electrical at this point. I say that because the other day I was in front of my apartment building struggling (as usual) to get the bike started and a helpful bystander who happened to be walking by suggested I shake the chassis of the bike to see if that helped. Sure enough, it did, though I wasn't 100% sure at the time about whether that's really what did it. Then, I tried it again this morning and it worked again, and this time it was unmistakeably due to shaking the chassis.

So, I'm not sure exactly what that implies about the starting problem, but I feel fairly confident ruling out an electrical issue at this point. I'm thinking maybe the fuel filter is clogged? If anyone else has any ideas, I'm eager to hear them.

Finally, assuming it is the fuel filter, how do I go about replacing it? My understanding is that on every CH80 model aside from the '85, the fuel filter is inside the fuel tank. Is this even replaceable?

Thanks as always for all your helpful advice guys, it is very much appreciated.

-Casey

[Alleyoop]

Yes they are replaceable and they are not expensive. As a matter of fact Straightbangin on this forum took hers off and replaced it with a Shutoff valve. You can read all about it in her TWO THREADS.
Alleyoop