AC to DC Conversion W/ Floating Ground By Bashan (Read 30,574 times)

[Bashan]

The oil pump is fused at 10 amps but I don't think it draws that much. I'm going to test it under load tomorrow with a multi in series and see just how much it really takes, The R/R says it can handle 150Ws so I'm going to make sure I stay below that. Anyway, that's juice through the R/R being rectified, the worst that could happen is that the battery draws down just as long as I don't try to cram 150 Watts + through the R/R, Rich

[tvnacman]

I know where to get a a good and inexpensive reg stator and flywheel .
John

[Alleyoop]

John,
How much are you chargeing to get you to tell us WHERE we can get this inexpensive reg stator and fly wheel ;D
Alleyoop

[tvnacman]

you have to have a dealer account .

www.nycscooterparts.com/

John

[Bashan]

I want to clarify a few things:

• I am trying to find an inexpensive way for riders with GY6 stock stators to go to an all DC system.
  
• The Trail Tech stators certainly have the juice but do not fit GY6 bikes, I asked.
  
• The Trail Tech universal regulator/rectifier will work with the GY6 stator with just a few minor modifications.......I asked.
  
• The Trail Tech universal regulator/rectifier will pump out more juice because it is a full wave rectifier and will take advantage of both the positive and negative cycles of the stator.
  
• How much more will be generated will be up for measurement plus the pump and fan will be on switches and can be shut down if power drain gets excessive.
  
• I think we should all sit back and see how this shakes out, it might be more workable than everybody thinks.
  
• At the very least, this should make for a easy DC conversion system where you could use all LED lights with little power drain.

[sprocket]

Question Rich... why doesn't Trail Tech make a decent stator that fits a GY6-150s??? Wouldn't that maybe be a good business decision?

[tvnacman]

Sept 26, 2011 12:01:23 GMT -6 Bashan said:

I want to clarify a few things here that may be getting muddled due to forum speak. I'll use the list function because it's really cool and no one uses it.

• I am trying to find an inexpensive way for riders with GY6 stock stators to go to an all DC system.
  
• The Trail Tech stators certainly have the juice but do not fit GY6 bikes, I asked.
  
• The Trail Tech universal regulator/rectifier will work with the GY6 stator with just a few minor modifications, I asked
  
• The Trail Tech universal regulator/rectifier will pump out more juice because it is a full wave rectifier and will take advantage of both the positive and negative cycles of the stator.
  
• How much more will be generated will be up fior measurement plus the pump and fan will be on switches and can be shut down if power drain gets excessive.
  
• I think we should all sit back and see how this shakes out, it might be more workable that everybody thinks.
  
• At the very least, this should make for a easy DC conversion system where you could use all LED lights with little power drain.

now lets not get off topic lol

[royldoc]

Rich, good luck in your quest. I am anxious to see how this turns out.
You are a lot like me when it comes down to trying different things. Some times they and some times they don't. But at least you can say I tried that once. Like the time I tried to put a home made EFI system and blower on a briggs 18 hp garden tractor. People ridiculed me laughed and said it wouldn't work. I did finally get it to work. If only for a short time before I melted the engine. But I did have fun Riding that mower at 45mph for 10 min before the engine catoed. ;D. I also learned a lot by trial and error.

Roy

[Bashan]

I thought I'd get some voltage values off off the stator before I started the modification process. I wanted to see what the voltages and milliamps were on the white and yellow wires. Then, I wanted to compare the voltage and milliamps off of the single winding to the two wires after I removed the yellow wire center tap and freed up the grounds. So here's the values for the AC voltages and milliamps for the yellow and white wires without load right to ground.

Yellow wire AC voltage:

Yellow wire milliamps:

Whie wire AC voltage:

White wire milliamps:

So now when I get the stator rewired we'll get some values off of the single winding and see how they compare to the yellow and white together. Rich

[Bashan]

Well hi y'all, I'm back and batsnit crazy! I didn't get as much done on the rectifier stator project as I'd hoped but the neighbor wanted me to look at his lawn mower. I told him it was red and rusty and walked away, I don't know what else he wanted! Anyway, the first thing on my agenda was to remove the yellow wire center tap on my stock GY6 stator. Then I can isolate one ungrounded AC coil for the voracious Trail Tech R/R that actually generates megawatts more than you put into it....kidding Jimbo! ;D Here's the dreaded yellow wire center tap:

That is actually just a wire soldered onto the contiguous wire of the stator winding. I love using the word contiguous, it makes me sound so contagious.....huh? Anyway, I heated the solder and the cheap arse Chinese wire came off in gobs:

So I soldered the winding together a little tighter and wrapped it in heat resistant electrical tape:

So now we have the blood sucking center tap gone. I still had to isolate both ends of the coil with no grounds......you know....the floating ground thing. I've had a few experiences with floating ground but that was back in the seventies and...welll, let's just not talk about that. So as to not bore you anymore than I have, I unsoldered both the green ground wire on one end of the winding, and the white wire at the other. Then I soldered a yelllow wire to each but marked them with green and white tape so i wouldn't forget their humble beginnings:

And here's the back where we'll have to get everything tucked away so Mr. Flywheel doesn't chew it all to hell:

So let's get the stator bolted into place with the wires back behind the stator body:

Now we get the two yellow lighting coil wires, and the red magneto coil wire up through the trigger magnet retainer:

Wow, you GOTTA be bored because I'm killing myself! Well, onward, there's a point to all this, but I forgot what it was....
Even though we now have just two yellow lighting coil wires (yellow arrow), the same wires run to the CDI. here they are on my little busbar that I like to use, the red AC feed (red arrow), blue trigger (blue arrow), and couple grounds, a yellow coil feed, and a kill (collective purple arrow):

The poser here was would the bike start like this. Theoretically it should because the yellow wires have nothing to do with the spark. What I was worried about was that I had removed the ground wire from the magneto coil so how was it going to complete it's circuit? Well I was counting on the stator to engine mount to provide that and it worked just fine, the bike banged right off. So while it was running I thought I'd try and get some AC voltages off of the yellow wires and see if anything was working. It's AC so you don't have to worry about polarity and there's no ground so you just hook the two yellows up to the probes on the multi:

So that's 38.59 v AC off of the two yellows, I'm not sure what the Trail Tech will do with that. And 27.44 ma AC:

I got the Trail Tech out of the box and I'm going to have to read the instructions a couple times.

[/center]

Then I'll hook it up to the bike and see what this puppy does. Hopefully I can get this done by lunch today. Rich[/b]

[Alleyoop]

Rich,
What the hell did you go on the other side of the world for LUNCH ;D or did it catch your scoot on fire or what happened or did it not pan out.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Alley, you are pyschic.....or psycho.....I'm not sure which. I've been side tracked by so many things yet finding a little time here and there to work on this project. It took MUCH longer to wire up which I will have to explain why in the next post. I had 90% of the wiring done yesterday and I couldn't wait any longer. I rolled it outside and hit the start button. Did it blow up? Did the Trail Tech R/R work? Did I fix the neighbor's lawnmower? Find out tomorrow when I get it together to post some pics. Rich

[Bashan]

OK Alley, I'm up at 5 AM posting some frickin' pictures. I hope you're happy! Just kidding, you know I love you bro. I went downstairs and took a few pics but it's still not the finished product. I've got to tie off some wires and I've yet to crank it up for a full test run on the Trail Tech R/R. But I did start it Sunday and the Trail Tech R/R performed beautifully cranking out about 12.5v DC. Let's see, I'll try to organize these pics in my Bucket album some. I call this the spaghetti monster view, at least until I put some cable wraps on:

This is a back view with the seat up, if you look closely you'll see the CDI attached under the seat:

I really like this, I'm not sure why. The CDI hooks to the busbar and then the wires rotate up and down with the seat. I've had many people PM me and tell me my experimental scooter would be NO GOOD in the rain because of stuff like this, and to that I say :

Here's the stator with the two yellow wires coming off of the one AC feed, there's also a red AC power wire to the CDI and the blue trigger:

Then the yellows snake their way up towards the front:

And hook on to the Trail Tech R/R:

The Trail Tech R/R then simply has a red and black wire that goes to the battery. The wiring problem I mentioned was that you can't frame ground ANYTHING except the R/R itself. It all has to tie back onto the negative terminal of the battery. Here's the schematic, you can see it all goes right back to the battery:

The tech guys at Trail Tech stressed this point to me several times. By the way, those guys were just super and answered every question I asked. I know they were getting tired of me but I sure couldn't tell, very nice guys. Anyway, to facilitate all of the ground tie offs I constructed a busbar (light blue circle) that has a primary cable running to the battery:

Above that you can see the back of the control panel/dashboard/don't get caught in the rain. Here's the front:

Here's a closer view:

Kind of reminds me of when I used to fly the space shuttle......

Where was I? Oh yeah, here's the R/R and the ground busbar:

And the primary cable to the battery:

Well I'll try to get it rolled out on the lift and crank it up for some tests today. If you noticed on the dashboard I have a voltmeter that should give me some decent data. I've got an ammeter ordered that will go in that open spot on the upper right of the dash and hopefully between the two I'll have a good idea of how this system responds to load. Rich

[royldoc]

Man that's one hell of a dash. It could double as a sail if the engine conks out. ;D Just cover all the connection and bus bar with liquid vinyl brush on electrical tape to water proof.

Roy

[Bashan]

Well Roy I've kinda wondered about the wind effect, I guess I'll find that out when I can go for a test ride. Of course, since I wanted to do some testing on it today all it has done is rain. I did put it on the stand and get some voltage measurements though which I'll post right now. Funny you should mention the liquid electrical tape, I bought about a pint of it at Lowes the other day just for this bike. I thought I tidied up behind the dash when I worked on it this afternoon but I don't think much changed:

I did add some wire wraps that I think helped:

And I got some voltages, you can see the meter on the dash. It never went below 12.5v DC so I know I'll stay in positive territory even with all the electricals on. The electricals are head/tail lights fused at 3 amps, the oil pump fused at 10 amps, the fan fused at 5 amps, the temp sensors which I didn't fuse because they're about 1 amp, and the voltmeter is unfused. What surprised me was how much the fan draws, it pulls the voltmeter down quite a bit but the Trail Tech R/R compenstaes quickly and it comes right back up.

So this experiment shows, at least so far, that you can leave an OEM GY6 stator with it's coil wrappings just like they are. You then have to remove the yellow wire center tap and remove all grounds from the green and white wire. Use the green and white as the lighting coil wires on a Trail Tech R/R and you've got a little DC powerhouse. It's not as complicated as it sounds and was really quite fun. I've got to get my ammeter hooked up and take this puppy out for a ride! Rich