Hello, and wiring question By danlmvac (Read 1,674 times)

[danlmvac]

Hello, my name is Dan and I run a donated vehicle program in Minnesota. We're about the only one not funded by tax dollars, so we don't have huge piles of your tax dollars to throw around. Anyway, A lady donated a 2007 Baron 150cc scooter to us with a bad motor. I decided to work on it myself to save bucks. I drop the motor, remove the cylinder head and the head of the intake valve falls on the ground. The head of the exhaust valve is completely gone and there's a hole in the piston I can put two gloved fingers through. Wow. Epic fail. The lady admitted to sustained WOT. The scoot's only got 501 miles on it and still looks nice, so I shop around and find a very reasonably priced engine and transmission assembly from an outfit in Florida. They send it, and the output shaft is short and I need long, so I tear all that apart and swap shafts. I proceed with installation and find that there is a group of wires coming out of the fan shroud near the right engine mount that terminates in a plug different than on the machine I have. I assume these come from the stator. The original machine had a white plug with four wires. One wire is green and the other three are all yellow. The engine they sent has a much smaller green plug with only three wires. They are green, white, and yellow. (There were two other wires also coming out of the same notch on the case, but those did fairly closely match what I have on the scoot.) So, I know how to run a soldering iron, but kinda clueless on how to proceed. I've looked at several wiring diagrams on this site, and it appears green is ground but still clueless on the rest.

[danlmvac]

The folks at partsforscooters.com told me to swap in the stator from the old machine. Swell.

[Alleyoop]

First let me welcome you to the forum, glad you found us. Very nice to have gotten almost a brand new scoot with a blown motor.

But parts is right the easyiest way to proceed is to swap the stator from the old motor and everything will just plug back up. But it is amazing that just about everyone that orders a new motor the stator they put on those never match up to your harness. There are dozens of them on here and other forums with the same PROBLEMO when they get a new motor.
Alleyoop

[justbuggin]

yes you will need to put the stator from the old motor in the new motor

[Bashan]

Howdy, welcome to the forum. The three yellow wires mean that's a three phase stator so yes, it will definately need to be swapped. The one on the new motor is single phase with the yellow and white wires being the opposite ends of a long winding through the stator. This would not be compatible without changing out the rectifier and some significant rewiring. Swapping stators is not rocket science but can be a little tricky. Let us know if you need some help. Rich

[danlmvac]

Thanks! I'll be on it here shortly. Do I need a flywheel puller?
Also, the new engine has a fairly large steel tube (about 1/2" OD) coming up and out of the head right next to the valve cover and angling back past the carb that the original engine did not have. I assume this is cranckase ventilation. In a car, I would guess that would go to the PCV system and/or the air cleaner. I had planned to just attach a piece of hose and let it vent below the scoot. There is another smaller hose on the valve cover, but it looks like that goes to what appears to be fuel pump on the rear corner of the gas tank. AND, (man, I'm getting annoying) there's a hose right above the gear box that appears to vent the gear box. I figured that one just vents to atmosphere also. Did I mention the machien came to me as a basket case? Partially disassembled in boxes? Always a joy with that. Thanks again

[Bashan]

Yep, gotta have a flywheel puller. Greg at Mainely Scooters has this interesting variety that I've never used:

Click image to go to Mainely Scooters

It looks like it's adaptable for different sizes, you might call him and ask. I bought mine from Mike at Buggy Parts NW. It's the usual type and you can look at it on this page, it's the GY6 model.

I'm not sure what that steel tube is you're referring to, this is what most GY6s look like on the front with pollution devices:

As you can see the crankcase breather usually comes off of the valve cover. Some of them, like on CF Motos, come off the case on the right side. If it's a PAIR device tube like you see in the photo, it will come off of the head just below the exhaust valve.

Fuel pumps or fuel valves are vacuum operated and the line would come off of the intake manifold. I'm not sure if this is what you're describing.

The hose above the gear box is indeed a vent and just tie it off above the transmission somewhere, it's not under any pressure.

You're not annoying, we all started from scratch on these things at some point. Rich

[danlmvac]

Thanks! Yup, I needed a flywheel puller. I live rural and the nearest town is 500 people, so I didn't even bother makin' a trip to Tom's Hardware and I didn't want to wait for a shipment to come in. So, I took my Wonderbar, marked the location of two of the holes for the fan mounting holes in the flywheel using the fan and proceeded to attempt to drill two holes in the Wonderbar---which is spring steel. After discovering I only had one drill bit hard enough to drill through it (and dulling numerous others mercilessly) I was successful. I put the nut back on the end of the crank to protect the threads, then used two 8mm bolts slightly longer than the fan-mounting bolts to tighten the bar up against the end of the crank, effectively pulling the flywheel toward me. Things got very, very tight and the Wonderbar started to bend slightly when the flywheel popped off with a very loud POINK! While this worked, I don't think it's a viable bit of advice for others as one could easily run the bolts into the stator windings, among other things. It also took me 90 minutes of messin' around drillin' holes in something I shouldn't have been drilling holes in.
On the hose routing, oh boy. I need to search the site, but from what you say, Bashan, are you telling me they inject air into the exhaust like cars did in the late 70's with the Air Injection Reactor Pump? I see nothing on the Baron for such a provision. The old head and cylinder have no such ports of fittings. So, If I put a piece of hose on it and vent it, what I will have is another exhaust pipe. So, I'm just gonna plug that.
Thanks again. As soon as I finish this cheap pizza, I'm back on it. Oh, do you have a link to a hose routing schematic? Yes, I was worng this morning, the fuel valve hose goes to intake manifold vacuum. Does the crankcase breather end up at the evaportive emissions canister?

[sprocket]

That has been attempted many times before.. the flywheel is mostly likely bent now. It may not look bent but when you run the engine again it will likely wobble like crazy unless you were really lucky...

Oh ya .. don't loose the woodruff key.. it is a common GOTTCHYA!

[Bashan]

This thread will help you identifify the lines. Rich

[Bashan]

The PAIR device works by pulsing fresh air into the exhaust system to facilitate burning unused hydrocarbons. They're pretty easy to remove by blocking the hole on the head with a small aluminum plate and throwing all the canisters and hoses away. The last thing you have to do is make sure any vac leaks are plugged. There's no pumps or anything computer controlled, the chances of it doing anything beneficial are very slim. My advice is to lose them and make some space on the bike. Rich

[danlmvac]

Thanks again guys! I think I have all the lines hooked up correctly. I sure hope I didn't bend the flywheel. D'oh!
So, I got it the machine to the point where I felt I could do a test-start. No seat, sidepanels, or air cleaner, but enough for it to run. The machine I have is not equipped with a PAIR system, although the new engine has the S tube., which I blocked off as you suggested, Rich.
So, I go for the start up, and I got nothin". The lights, horn, turn signals all work but no crank and no start. I hit the kick starter and I can hear compression, but she doesn't offer. I squirt a tiny bit of carb spray in the carb and no pop. I see the starter relay up on the left side and jump across it with a screwdriver and it cranks but no spark.
I checked for some kind of interlock device to keep the scoot from starting if the seat is open but found none. I did try starting with the seat latch flipped to the closed position with a screwdriver. Nope, that aint it.
So, if my mind is gonna play "scooter detective" I imagine the lady who owned it flyin' down the highway at WOT when the engine makes the 70 mph maraca sound. She costs to a stop and, despite having just heard a sound that could only be from catastrohic engine failure, she hits the starter button. She hears a clunk but no start, so she hits the button again, this time longer and harder---and fries the fuse for the starter ignition.
So, that's my next step--I assume it's behind the cowl under the handle bars?

[danlmvac]

D'OH!!!! It cranks just fine WHEN I APPLY THE BRAKE!!
Yes, another benefit of the nanny-state.
Still didn't start. I'll have to check for fuel later.
If the fuel valve is vacuum operated, how does it open when you're cranking and the carb is dry?

[sprocket]

It is called a petcock.. the cranking engine creates vacuum which opens it. The carb should have fuel in the float bowl.. this is what starts the engine...

Check for spark on the plug and fuel flow to the carb when you crank.. it should pee gas...at the fuel line at the carb

[sprocket]

Here is a diagram of the fuel and vacuum lines..any leaks and the scooter will not run...

See the next post...