Moto Fashion. Sputter at start (stalls) By justguy1 (Read 2,893 times)

[justguy1]

When I first start it, it seems to sputter and if I give it some gas it stalls... After it warms up a bit, then it runs good.. Still feel like its sputtering at times.. Can this be a clogged carb?? Or does it need to have the idle increased?? Any suggestions??

[richardthescooter2]

What are the RPMS when warm up?

[justguy1]

not sure what the RPMS are.. don't have a Tach.. When im stopped feels like it wants to jerk forward..

[Alleyoop]

What changes did you do, Free Flow Filter bigger jets etc..
It just appears you just have to adjust the Carbs Fuel Ratio Mixture either due to changes you made or Temp changes.

What do you mean feels like it wants to jerk forward, either it wants to move or not.

Put it on the Center stand and the REAR WHEEL SHOULD NOT be spinning. If it is Lower the IDLE using the IDLE SPEED screw you turn that COUNTER CLOCKWISE. It only takes very little to lower or raise the idle maybe 1/16 of a turn.

You want the REAR wheel to JUST want to turn or TURN VERY VERY SLOWLY.
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

Alley, I haven't made any changes at all to it... I bought it used. just started riding it.. When it sits on the center stand. I start it.. I wants to stall.. give it some throttle it stalls.. let it run for a bit.. then when I start out it will go, but kind of sputters a bit.. might have to do a video so you can see what im talking about..

[Alleyoop]

On the centerstand is the wheel spinning?

How does it act after about 10 minutes when the motor is nice and hot?
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

When it is nice and hot after riding around and you come to stops signs and lights or you stop does it want to die or idle good.
Need to tell if its your valves or just a carb mixture problem.
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

NO, the wheel doesn't go anywhere when on the center stand... I was reading about the air/fuel screw should I turn that at all?? It rides pretty good after running for a bit... when Im stopped.. its hard to explain.. it feels like it wants to stall.. but it keeps running.. and when I start out giving it goes.. but ya having the feeling like its going to cut off...

[Alleyoop]

Ok, if it wants to cut off after it is hot it could be your valves need to be adjusted. What happens is they close up usually the EXHAUST VALVE and leaves it a little open and it starts to loose compression. Once it gets worse it will not IDLE after it gets hot it will die if you do not touch the throttle and give it a little gas. Tight valves will NOT hold the idle.

But First try adjusting the Carb and see if that solves the problem.
Here is how to adjust it correctly and take your time. Also this has to be done after it is nice and hot.
Alleyoop
Follow this procedure to tune the carb: Take your time 1/4 turn to much in either direction makes a big difference.

ADJUSTING YOUR FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:

YOU WANT THE HIGHEST RPMS OUT OF THE AIR RATIO MIXTURE SCREW:

Start your scoot and Get The Engine Nice and Hot about 5 minutes so that the Enricher IF it has one is no longer Allowing Extra Fuel to come in. Then do the following to fine tune the Fuel Ratio Mixture:

FUEL RATIO SCREW:
FIRST TRY RICHENNG THE FUEL MIXTURE FROM ITS CURRENT SETTING:

1. RICHEN THE FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:
Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/4 of a turn and wait 10 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting.

a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT #1 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE(then go to b).

b. TURN the Fuel Ratio Mixture Screw CLOCKWISE 1/8 and that should be your highest Fuel Ratio Mixture setting—GO TO #3.


******If on the FIRST 1/4 TURN from the STARTING Position IN #1 ABOVE the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE , turn the Fuel Ratio Mixture Screw Back the 1/4 turn to the Starting position and wait 10 seconds until the engine catches up -- GO TO #2 ******


2. LEAN THE FUEL RATIO MIXTURE:
Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw CLOCKWISE 1/4 of a turn and wait 10 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting.

a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT #2 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE(then go to b).

b. TURN the Fuel Mixture Screw COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/8 and that should be your highest Fuel Ratio Mixture setting—GO TO #3.


IF YOU GOT TO THIS POINT AND NOT INSTRUCTED TO GO TO #3 THAT MEANS THERE WAS NO CHANGE IN RPMS FROM DOING #1 or #2 ABOVE, IT IS TIME TO CLEAN THE CARB:
YOU NEED TO CLEAN YOUR PILOT JET AND PASSAGE AND AIR PASSAGES AND THEN START FROM #1 AGAIN.


3. IDLE SPEED SCREW:

The Idle Speed Screw on a Carb that are on most 4Ts you will find on the right side on the THROTTLE CONTROL WHEEL. It is the screw with a SPRING on it.
To Lower the IDLE you turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE to Raise the IDLE you turn it CLOCKWISE.

If after adjusting your Fuel Ratio Mixture your idle is to fast Turn the IDLE SPEED SCREW COUNTER CLOCKWISE. For the 50s-150s they like to idle around 1500-1800rpms, for the 250s+ they like to idle from 1800-2000 rpms, pick the smoothest idle with the rear wheel not spinning ---GO TO #4.

4. TEST YOUR ADJUSTMENTS:
Now give the Throttle a QUICK twist and the RPMS should climb up quickly without hesitation or bogging and come down to where you set your Idle at---GO TO #5.

5. NOW take a ride and try it out, the Fuel Ratio mixture may need a tweak in either direction now that the motor has a load on it.

The tweak will be minor maybe a ¼ turn richer or leaner IF it acts up with a load---GO TO #6

6. When it acts up BACK OFF the throttle about ¼ of an INCH AND HOLD IT THERE:

a. If the motor speeds up it is LEAN you need to richen it up a little.

b. If the motor settles down and or stumbles and then settles down it is RICH you need to LEAN it out a little.
GO TO #5 AGAIN.

Problems with the IDLE:
1. Give the throttle a quick twist:

A. If the rpms drop below idle speed, then recovers (or stalls), it is RICH —Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw Clockwise ¼ turns at a time and go to #1.

B. If the rpms do not drop quickly to the idle speed but hang and drop slowly it is LEAN —Turn the Fuel Mixture Screw Counter Clockwise ¼ turns at a time and go to #1.

[Bashan]

Good grief Alley, you're going to have to stop answering with those one or two line posts! Just kidding pal, that is a great tutorial, I'll have to move that to tech when this thread is done.

Well Justguy1, I'd follow Alley's procedure and see how it shakes out. I have a Fashion and would like to add something. If my bike sits for more than a few days it acts just like yours. I've discovered that the float bowl dries out and if I squirt gas down through the bowl vent it cranks right up.

If your bike is doing what you described more often than after sitting it could be the auto-choke.

My Fashion will run a little hinky if I've been hauling buttocks and then have to go slow. However, it soon smooths out and runs normally. KZ told me his does that too so I think it's just a quirk with the CV carb on that bike.

[kz1000st]

I'll tell you something even weirder about the bike. When I first got it I'd put it on the centerstand and start it to warm up while I put on my helmet and gloves. It would either stall or idle badly. Now I start the bike while I'm sitting on it, wheels on the ground, with the side stand up, and it starts and idles like a charm. Go figger.

[Alleyoop]

It likes to feel butt
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

Just want to say you guys are all awesome... And mine does sit for a few days at a pop and that may be the reason.. Loved Alley's tutorial. I printed it out so I can follow it.. Im also going to change out the valve stems.. I don't need a blowout. Went and got 1 1/4 in valves from Tractor Supply... hopefully much better...

So all in all you guys don't think its the valves right?? Cause I really don't want to mess with those.. I will check what Alley told me to do.. and see from there...

Just getting used to this thing... When im riding .. (with the wind being extra) it feels like im not stable even though im sure I am.. when I had my 150cc.. that felt fine.. just getting used to the weight of this thing plus my big arse on it... on this little 10in wheel.. wish there was a way to modify this scooter... but all in all.. its nice to keep up with the traffic..

[Alleyoop]

Very cool, yea just watch out for big potholes with those 10" wheels and short frame it will go down in a minute.
Ride Safe and hope the carb adjustment helps it out.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

I adjusted my valves soon after getting the bike. I think i wasted my time in that they were fine and it made no difference in how it ran. I've now banged out 7,000 miles commuting to work and the valves are still quiet and the bike runs great. it is my understanding that the valves will get noisy when they need adjusting. If you're not familiar with the Randi Pozzi CH 250 site it is a tremendous resource for the Helix/Fashion. On his valve adjustment page the last bit of information reads:

Several Honda mechanics I talked with favor adjusting the valve clearance if the lifters are noisy and leaving them alone if they are quiet regardless of the mileage.

If Mr. Pozzi thinks that I'm sure not going to argue with him. I'm waiting for noisy lifters or poor performance before I hit the valves again.

KZ mentioned that his bike worked out a problem on it's own. Mine does the same thing,, it will start making a suspicious noise or develop a performance quirk. Then, before I get a chance to investigate, it's gone. I'm not complaining that it fixes itself, but it's a little creepy.