150cc Roketa Fiji Electrical problem By learae (Read 5,080 times)

[learae]

Hi All,

These Chinese scooters seem to fall apart faster than... oh wait. Since starting this riding season I had to replace the brakes, fix the speedometer cable...

Now today I went to the store and I left the key in the scooter for 5 minutes in the on position with the kill switch off. Normally I don't do that, but it was about to start raining and I was in a hurry and it just slipped my mind.

When I came back out I flipped the kill switch on and hit the starter and nothing. The blinkers? nothing. Not even the gas gauge worked. Totally dead.

. So I kick started it, fired right up after a couple kicks.

Once running, I noticed that if I turned on the blinkers, something under the dash started to buzz loud. When I turned the blinker off, it continued to buzz but quieted down. Also, the blinkers didn't Blink as much as they just... turned on.

The headlights turned on, the brake light turned on, dimly, when I hit the brakes, and the hazard lights didn't work. I also tried to fire the starter and got nothing still. Oh, the gas gauge started working. So we got that.

Uhoh.

So I got home after a 3 minute ride and did some observations.
1) The battery voltage is 12.83 V with the engine off.
2) The voltage across the battery does not increase when running or when throttle is applied
3) The buzzing was coming from the turn signal relay, which I then disconnected
4) With the turn signal relay disconnected, the electrical problems with the starter and everything else continue to happen.

Your advice is appreciated, I don't want to get a new turn signal relay and blow it right away because the problem is elsewhere. What else do you think I should check?

Thanks!

[Bashan]

I think your rectifier may be burnt up. The killswitch just grounds out the spark; it doesn't shut any electricity off. If you left your ignition switch on you still had the battery running the whole time you were inside. The fact that there's no charging voltage is a big red flag for a burnt R/R. The headlights aren't working right either, the yellow wire part of the R/R is toast.

If you look on this wiring diagram you'll see the black wire off the ignition runs to the fuel gauge, flasher, and a lot of other components that are now improperly functioning; you may have toasted some of them along with the flasher:

But the biggest problem is that with the ignition on you were also still pulling juice since the tail lights and a lot of other components were on. I think you roasted some diodes. I'm wondering if you had a signal on too? The emergency flashers stop when you hit a brake, that part is normal.

You've already tested the charging part of the R/R and it failed. You can test the yellow wire with some RPMs but I can just about guarantee it won't be close to 12v AC.

[tvnacman]

upplug the regulator put the flasher back in see if anything changes and get back to up .

John

[learae]

Thanks for the diagram.

I swapped the regulator with one from another scooter. I put the thought-bad one into the other scooter and everything still worked fine. So probably not bad...

With the new regulator in place on the scooter, nothing worked still. The turn signal relay still made the buzzing noise and it was pretty bad. The starter still didn't work.

I checked the main fuse and it was good, but not in the holder all that great. Reseated it. Checked the ignition switch to make sure that was working (it's brand new, I replaced it a week ago) and it was fine. I put the ignition switch back in. Checked and reseated a few other plugs under the hood.. and it fired up!

Put the turn signal relay back in and it works again.

How strange. But I guess I am rolling again until the next thing breaks.

I'm going to keep the bigger regulator in this scooter since I am actually using it. I intend to get the other one running better and then sell it. I don't think the buyer will know if it has a smaller regulator

So hopefully nothing else goes wrong. Are you serious that you're not able to leave the ignition on with the engine off? Seems ridiculous to me that that would break things.

Thanks though!

[Alleyoop]

Leaving the key on the only thing that it will do is drain the battery due to anything that comes on when the key is turned on and is activated by direct DC current. It would be just like a flashlight leave it on and the batteries will drain but the bulb is still good.

The buzzing of the flasher is caused by a weak battery same with any of the instruments and lights dimming or not getting enough to even light up. There is no magic here you road to the store 5 minutes away and the battery was already low due to the starting and lights on. It takes a good 20 minutes of riding the scoot at 3000+ rpms to replenish the battery the juice it lost when starting and everything working. The charging system on the scoots is minimal at best and short trips will cause the battery to get low.
Alleyoop

[learae]

Is 12.83 V considered low?

I went for a jaunt around the block and the problem came back.

Also the lights are off when the engine is off, even if the key is on. The blinkers still work if the engine is off.

So this has happened with two different regulators, and the starter circuit doesn't go through the regulator at all anyways. So what's up with that?

[Alleyoop]

Your battery probably has a bad cell, they will register good just sitting there but will not take a load. Batteries may show good voltage with a multi meter but have a bad cell and as soon as you put a load on it the AMPS drop like a rock. The multi meter is reading what is called the surface charge voltage.

Nothing should work with the key off unless you have an alarm on it and or remote or a clock in the instrument panel or unless you added something. With the key on the minimum that should work is your gas gauge and your BRAKE LIGHTS when you squeeze the brakes.

To put on your instrument LIGHTS and RUNNING lights do you have a Light Switch on the right hand grip?

Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

I suggest the first thing to do is take the battery out and take it to an auto parts store and tell them to test it for load that you think it has a bad cell. If the battery is good the only parts that may be needed would be the R/R and or the STATOR if it is not charging.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Apr 13, 2013 20:37:23 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Leaving the key on the only thing that it will do is drain the battery due to anything that comes on when the key is turned on and is activated by direct DC current.

I thought the same thing Alley until I left the key on for about 10 minutes once and the R/R was toast afterwards. It might be a bizarre coincidence but I assumed something weird happened. I've also left it on longer than that several times and nothing happened....go figure.

Apr 13, 2013 20:58:44 GMT -6 learae said:

Is 12.83 V considered low?

12.83v DC is a very good key off battery reading. It's a lame-o charging voltage, it should be about 13.5. Also, when the scooter is started the charging voltage should vary a little with the RPMs, not stay stuck at 12.83.

Apr 13, 2013 20:58:44 GMT -6 learae said:

Also the lights are off when the engine is off, even if the key is on. The blinkers still work if the engine is off.

Most headlights work off of the yellow wire from the stator so they go out with the engine. There's a few lights, like a couple small forward lights and blinkers, that work off of the battery and the key. Some headlights come on with the key.

Apr 13, 2013 20:58:44 GMT -6 learae said:

So this has happened with two different regulators, and the starter circuit doesn't go through the regulator at all anyways. So what's up with that?

Just for the hell of it, test your ignition switch. Alley's right about the bad cell in the battery, you might need to get it load tested.

[Alleyoop]

The only other thing is that something has shorted out with the rain.
Alleyoop

[learae]

Thanks for answering my question before I asked it, I was looking at the wiring diagram and it definitely seems to me like the black wire from the ignition switch isn't being energized with the key in. I will test it.

It makes sense, too. This is all theory deduced from my background in electrical engineering, but with the engine off, it doesn't make contact. With the engine on, the vibrations cause it to make intermittent contact which is enough for the gas gauge which can tolerate that, makes the horn quieter, and the blinkers not work because the flasher is getting turned on and off at the rate of the vibration. That also causes the buzz.

It's rainy and dark outside now, and I already put everything back together when I thought it was fixed. I will take a look tomorrow and see if it is bad, but it certainly makes sense to me. It's a shame that it's an expensive part, $45 on scrappydogscooters.com if I can't get it fixed myself.

Thanks!

[learae]

(also when I popped the starter switch out to test it, I was futtsing around the ignition switch and surely tapped it a few times which may have caused it to work... until the scooter started vibrating again while running!)

[Bashan]

Apr 13, 2013 22:08:08 GMT -6 learae said:

This is all theory deduced from my background in electrical engineering.

Oh great, I pick an EE to start gibbering on about burning up the rectifier. I'm a chiropractor, this is a hobby. I looked up this topic on my old buddy Dan's Motorcycle. Alley is right as usual, you won't burn the R/R up with the key. However, if you have a bad diode it can allow current to flow burning up the fuse. So just not a good idea.....moving on.

If you're not familiar with Chinese scoots then you'll be unpleasantly surprised to find that this is their idea of a wiring diagram. That one is actually readable but you'll find it will be used for many different bikes. Your scooter's wiring will not match up exactly. By the way, is this your scooter?

Click image

That's the one we're talking about.....Fiji...Aruba...tomatoe...tamahtoe. Man, $45.00 for an ignition switch? Things have gone up since I burned one of those....er uh.......that's expensive! You might contact TVnACman who owns Tested Scooter Parts and see if he can do better. John's a good guy and tests his parts before he ships them....very novel. Let us know what happens with the repair.

[learae]

To be fair I am not an EE... I went to school for Computer Engineering and we covered half of the EE curriculum and half of the SE curriculum. But I do hobbyist circuitry projects on the side. Regulators are always evil. lol.

And yes that's the one I have. I actually already have a scrappydogscooters shopping cart made up, there's a bunch of stuff I want to buy and I've ordered from him a few times already and it's reasonably priced and fast!

I think I am getting addicted o-o

[Bashan]

Apr 14, 2013 10:27:44 GMT -6 learae said:

I think I am getting addicted o-o

Scooter fever: buying a scooter or parts you don't need but just got to have because they look really cool and like they'll increase the fun factor exponentially.