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Post by mauiboy on May 20, 2011 20:36:24 GMT -6
wow, thats a very young jeremy clarkson there! back when he had more hair and less jeremy clarkson round the middle. $80k usd is pretty steep, but its a great concept and could probably be mass produced for a competitive price. BMW? made a scooter with a roof years ago, it was all the rage at F1 circuits for getting drivers back to the pits when they did a Sato.
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Post by mauiboy on May 20, 2011 20:18:00 GMT -6
Just because 'new' might not make sense for you, does not mean it doesn't make sense for everybody else. Different folks have different circumstances and berating and belittling people for making a choice which suits them is very unbecoming.
If buying new made no sense then 1- very few would do it and 2- there would be no used market for you to enjoy because there would be no new bikes to be resold.
The debate re kymco being too close to the Japanese scoots in price is another thing entirely.
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Post by mauiboy on May 4, 2011 6:06:20 GMT -6
weird, we have inspections here for scoots. Basic tyre kicking and arse scratchin stuff but it happens yearly. Not sure about moped but I believe I have see them with inspection tags just not licence plates. The tags are a pita as they dont stay stuck on very well. Loads of people drive expired tags (easy to tell the color changes each year) , sometimes I see a random color and have to go see what year it is because its so old. However it seems ok to ride / drive here without a licence, insurance, safety tags etc as long as you are drunk at the time and or smoking the special stuff
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Post by mauiboy on May 4, 2011 6:01:02 GMT -6
This is an apolitical topic so should be within the rules and is not dissimilar to the net neutrality topic.
First a bit of reading if you want to hear the fairytale version publicknowledge.org/issues/ow
To sum it up, there is a group of people (mostly publishing companies / corporations / news providers) who want a situation whereby if they cannot 'reasonably' find the copyright owner of an image / video / book they want they get to use it for free AND should the owner find out damages do not apply, they only pay a capped token fee and the works owner cannot prevent them from continuing to use the work.
The justification for doing this is that it will unlock a vast amount of previously unusable work, make the world a better place and maybe bring back the dodo.
Put simply this is a fabrication. Whereas a bunch of teenagers before wanted it to be ok to have free music, this time companies just want to avoid paying for work. The unlocked library is a fallacy, getty, magnum, corbis et al have a huge library of video and pictures of every even since the inception of film and considerable libraries of illustrations and paintings going back to the dawn of pigments. The problem for companies is they have to pay to use them and this makes them very unhappy! It's terribly unfair in their view that photographers and videographers be paid for their work.
They say just registering copyright on the works will prevent this, but frankly it wont. Heres two scenarios, 1. I shoot a wedding and provide the client with the edited shots. They place them on facebook (this is fine with me) and some web designer for a company finds the image via google image search and uses it. 2. I shoot a portrait session and use a picture in a display at a bridal fair. Some numpty takes a picture of my work (this happens so much I want a trapdoor installed over a tiger pit to deal with them) posts it on flickr and it gets found and used. In either scenario the clients find out, get upset at me and it tarnishes my reputation. Also I do not get paid, but most importantly I do not get a chance to refuse and nor can I prevent the use from continuing. I pay for music, I pay for books and videos, why should my work not be respected. The arguments for bettering the world do not ring true, its simply an exercise in avoiding paying. Working as a pro photographer is not cheap, I have easily spent well into 6 figures on equipment, training, processing etc over the years. Whilst my rates are not craigslist cheap I do not make huge amounts of money (hell i work a second job as well), it seems that those of us in the creative industry are being demonised for wanting to at least have the chance to respect the privacy of our clients if not be paid for our work. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the situation but this seems like a giant con, its a free pass to cheat and if you get caught the penalty if 1/10th the cost of doing it right the first time.
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Post by mauiboy on May 3, 2011 19:43:10 GMT -6
Thanks re hyosung. Price wise its inbetween the rv250 and the eggciting 250 IIRC. I just wish we had more dealerships here, plus it seems a lot of mid range bikes have gone from the NA market if not worldwide and many never made it out into the ocean to get on the used market. The maj would be ideal, as would a burger 400 and quite a few others but I've only ever seen one burger up for sale used here and it hadn't had the pre 08 corrective work done and had its share of miles. Plus the used prices here are insanely high, much better to buy new (seriously, one korean car marker dealership wanted $7k for a 6 year old 60k miles base model, base spec $10k when new car). I've had a sit on a schwing and a burger 650. Elsewhere tried to get me on that piaggio circus act, I'll probably give it a try next time given they still havent sold any (here) and they keep slashing the price but I'm not sure that it isnt just too clever for its own good. I guess I need to sit and wait and see if the new sym place gets off the ground and also what new comes to market. I think scoot prices are going to go up, in the chinese market due to the rmb rising and in general as demand rises. Hopefully this might also mean more bikes making the NA markets. Look at hondas range, you can get up to a 150 then a huge jump to 600cc. Its the same with MC's for most marques. I think only suzuki have a 400, most jump from 250 to 650. Thanks again folks!
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Top speed
by: mauiboy - May 2, 2011 20:28:40 GMT -6
Post by mauiboy on May 2, 2011 20:28:40 GMT -6
one thought may be if the OP lives somewhere hot and is running 20w50 or something similar because of the heat the top speed is likely to be lower, by how much I have no idea. The basic premise that a 150 should be able to hit a true 50mph on the flat under normal conditions is pretty sound (with an average sized driver). I checked last night and I can get 68 indicated (62 actual?) flat out downhill, thats around 8500rpm indicated which rings true with the rev limiter. I'm 220lbs. The svelte mcalli no doubt can go a lot faster, being 100lbs lighter will help a lot. Basically a 150 with 8hp on a good day can make 50 under most normal conditions BUT add in anything like altitude, an extra 100lbs weight, a headwind, an incline etc it drops. As mentioned above they have nothing in reserve, mine runs WOT a lot of the time (which cannot bode well for engine life). A stroker crank upgrade might improve things. IIRC if would add more torque (or rather proportionally more torque than hp) which should assist with maintaining speed in hills \ headwinds \ carrying loads.
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Post by mauiboy on May 2, 2011 19:28:27 GMT -6
hahah the kymco xciting was near the top of my list, but I keep getting stuck in that old wellllll only another XXX and I can get the 500, and another XXX I can get the ABS version and I need to spend XXX on a box for it so I'm practically at the cost of a silverwing so I may as well get the wing even if it does have a front end wobble around 30mph etc etc. The whole ocean thing is a huge PITA at times. A used 400 burger / tmax etc would be a great idea. Its pretty much everything I want. A used silverwing would be too fast (I have a low responsibility thresh hold). ABS and more space would make the xciting perfect. I'm hoping for the maxsym 400 will have a sensible price and ABS (and they hurry up with a local dealer). 6k for that would make the choice easier. Failing that the xciting with a box looks ok if I can talk a deal out of the local dealer. I know the local honda / suzuki dealer tends to end up discounting the larger scoots as they dont move well. If they still have the swing for 7k it might be worth a look as well. The hyosung looks interesting, very much in the same vein as the jetmax looks wise. What is the company like build wise? The price puts it in the same league as say the sym rv250i. Can I expect similar build and reliability? Thanks for all the thoughts folks really appreciated.
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 22:02:38 GMT -6
Sure, most 250's would do that if not get pretty close, 400's for sure. The run up haleakala is the biggest push of the bike, more specifically the highway up from wailuku where theres a reasonable gradient and 55mph speeds. A 250 EFi should get close to 80mph if not more flat out. A 400 EFi will do 100 thereabouts flat out. Perhaps 25% is a bit much, just feels like it when walking it Thanks for the thoughts I guess I'm being a bit of a goldilocks. The downtown 300i and the xciting 250 are so close. If we had a sym dealer the choice would be easier although it would be nice with bigger wheels.
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Top speed
by: mauiboy - May 1, 2011 21:59:17 GMT -6
Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 21:59:17 GMT -6
I have done a couple of runs to check with gps but I don't do it frequently. 55mph indicated is 50mph on the gps.
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 21:57:26 GMT -6
Thats for the absolute basic coverage, no comprehensive coverage or theft protection. I just checked and for a 250 (around 5k value) with a modest deduction comprehensive coverage with theft coverage runs 350 ish, 450 for a 400cc bike.
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 21:07:34 GMT -6
So I'm looking for a new set of wheels, probably for around the start of next year (which gives time for a couple of new models like the maxsym and maybe even the cf moto jetmax to arrive or the legendary ducati mystery scooter).
The problem is nothing seems to just fit right and some possibles are no longer on the market, don't have local dealers or just aren't sold in the usa.
So the wants / would like to haves
250-400cc (enough to pull 60mph up a 1 in 4 / 25% gradient into a headwind). <$5500 if possible ABS would be nice, even the cheaper chinese kind >13inch wheels. 13 is the bare bare minimum. Enough storage for at least one full lid if not two. maxi scoot. local dealer a huge plus circa 60mpg
The candidates
the jetmax (I am assuming it will be on a par with kymco and sym quality wise) + relatively cheap assuming it comes in closer to the mainland china 3k price than the projected 4k US price. has the space and power and wheel size. - no local dealer = additional time and money and loss of some dealer perks (finance etc). tough to put a box on.
the sym maxsym 400i + has the wheels, the power, probably the abs, the space etc - nobody knows the actual specs or most importantly the price for sure. meant to rival the burger 400. no local dealer.
suzuki burgman 400 + space, local dealer - 13 inch wheels, a history of issues with the clutch amongst other things. price.
the kymco xciting 250 + fits everything but abs and space - a bit higher in price than the sym rv250, no abs, small storage compared to some others.
sym rv250i + fits nearly everything - no local dealer, not 15/14 wheels.
piaggio mp3 150 + its bonkers - its expensive and bonkers.
Local dealers for yamaha, honda, suzuki, HD, kymco, roketa, piaggio, kawasaki.
No local dealers for triumph, sym, cf moto.
Any thoughts, anything I'm missing? The current rocket A is performing very well, it just doesnt have the grunt, it suffers when I try and gain much altitude and I realize I have been very lucky with the example I got.
the problem with the 400's and more so with the 650's is theyre in the same price range as triumphs etc and theyre very tempting. I'd rather keep in the 4-5k bracket then venture into the 7k + bracket. I also don't need huge amounts of speed, I don't want 140mph, the ability to do 60 in any conditions and have enough grunt at that speed to overtake is sufficient so 250 - 300 is probably the sweet spot.
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 20:50:22 GMT -6
No worries, not much longer before China it outsourcing to the USA anyway
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 20:39:56 GMT -6
I thought from my tone you may have figured I didn't agree. I'll get back in my box.
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 20:24:25 GMT -6
For a given definition of assembled it may be true in a certain light Perhaps if you define assembled as putting some decals on and screwing a few bits together. You know, marketing speak (thinly veiled lies somehow justified by a vague association to something akin to a truth). The scoots are physically made in China (assuming they dont outsource some of the process or purchase parts from cheaper markets) but there is some final physical assembly in the USA after it is decrated. I haven't seen them marketed as such but it is possible somebody is saying that. Just saying depending on how you look at it it is correct (especially if you work in marketing or for a hedge fund).
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Post by mauiboy on May 1, 2011 18:40:00 GMT -6
Round these parts people get insurance, then cancel it as soon as they get the card. It sucks hugely especially for us poor sods who pay for it. Mines 100 a year, I don't mind paying it, thats a fair amount and would most likely be cheaper if everyone bought it. <50cc scoots dont need plates or insurance here, in theory to make it cheaper for people to use them. They can also ride on the hard shoulder (and are encouraged to do so). tbh I dont agree with the lack of plates and insurance, the former makes it far harder to deal with examples of poor / dangerous riding. The latter, considering how cheap insurance actually is for little scoots is just wrong. If you cannot afford 10 bucks a month for insurance take the bus. It's not like insuring an aston martin, we aren't talking silly money.
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