disconnecting Pars (emissions ) By scoot (Read 1,989 times)

[scoot]

scoot,cyborg,Bashan,jct842,richardv,@lanternscooter cyborg your in California too, so you can relate to this ,I'm going to be really honest here I have a Corvette that I've had for over 30 years back in the day it had a 400 cu.in small block with a 671 blower would smoke the tires in any gear (i loved that motor) any way got in a little trouble with it (LOL) so I parked it (lost my licence )and the Vette had to be smogged to get it back on the street. so I figured I got some time to work on the Vette I still had the stock 350 that came in the car but didn't want to go though the hassle of switching out the motors .so at the time, if the car was over 25 years old you didn't have to smog it. my car was very closes to that age, I thought O.k I'm in like Flint(old school reference) I'll just wait and the car will be out of the smog requirements (wrong)I can leave the blown motor in the the car and be on my Mary way.little did I realize that the powers that be, had changed the laws,so if you read my previous tread you'll remember in California all vehicles that came with smog equipment from the factory (even if it had been removed years before you owned the car)you were required to have all the smog equipment(in working order) that came on the car.so what to do?swap out the motors and kill a BAD A%#@ Vette or just set on it? well I did go back to the 350 motor but now even the 350 won't pass emissions so the Vette sets in my driveway can't drive it. I just can"t stand to part with it.so you say what does this have to do with scooters?well it doesn't, not really,it's more about emission laws if this can happen to cars it can sure as he%#@ can happen to scooters and motorcycles. so BEWARE the next vehicle they come after may be yours.so if your state wants to enact new emission laws take a REAL good look at the law before you say it's o.k. with me, I'm all for the environment.yea.... ME... too.. just not so mush as I use to be.later

[jct842]

Time to get the hell out of kalifornia

[cyborg]

Jan 12, 2015 23:36:34 GMT -6 jct842 said:

Time to get the hell out of kalifornia

Can I get an AMEN???!!!

[scoot]

scoot,jct842,cyborg AMEN brother AMEN whats Arizona's emission laws like (have to look in to that)just one problem my scooter didn't come with air cond. don't think riding in 101 degrees sounds like to much fun.later

[jct842]

I have never been to kalifornia but after hearing about it from others I don't want to visit even to go to disneyland! From what it costs to live there you have to have a money tree to finance it.

Around here you can rent a 2 bed house for around $400 and buy a decent one for $50k or possibly a bit more. I own free and clear, haven't paid any interest on any thing in 30 years. I can't imagine what it would cost to retire out there for a month. In the south here you can get by for a whole lot less if you look around. A friend just moved out of a trailer that she was renting the last 9 years, last year the new owner of the lot raised her rent to $225 a month that included water and sewers. A really nice house might run you $900, 4 bed type of thing.

[scoot]

scoot,cyborg,Bashan,jct842,richardv,@lanternscooter I knew at the time I said it,it was going to come back and bite me in the a@# (the scooter runs great after I removed the pars)well here's the problem.and the funky fix I came up with.the scooter would start up just fine but as soon as I gave it throttle it falls on it's face I could get it going if i feathered the throttle but as soon as I got going I could feel it surging not running smooth .after playing with it for awhile I figured it out, not enough vacuum to raise the slide in the carb. so I took some clothe and rapped it around the air cleaner and held it on with rubber bands.and WALLA the scooter runs fine. o.k.this works but I don't want to run around with this jerryrigged set up .can I fix it with jetting or some kind of other vacuum pluming? or do I have to run one of those large ugly foam air cleaners? I now run one of those so called free flowing cone shaped air cleaners,and would like to keep it if I can. any ideas would be of great help. thanks in advance. p.s. Alley are you out there, please I need your help!!!!

[jerryscript]

You could restrict the tube going into the carb a bit,

Otherwise, try raising the needle by either lowering the clip if it's adjustable, or adding a washer at a time. If it's an adjustable clip, and you move it all the way to the bottom notch, and it's still behaving the same or similar, you need a larger main jet. Remember, each time you move the needle clip or add/remove washers, you have to re-adjust your a/f mixture screw a bit to compensate. Changing the main jet will not adjust idle, so you will need to adjust based on throttle response at speed.

[scoot]

scoot,jct842,cyborg,jerryscript Ok I've been wheighting for larger main jets and they just showed up in the mail believe it or not.I'm now running a 110 main the new jets are a 112 and a 115 so if I under stand you I may fix the problem with a larger jet .and yes I know I'll have to readjust the a/f is the starting point 1 1/2 out or 2 1/2 out? I've heard both.I look forward to your comments.

[Bashan]

I agree with Jerryscript, you are adjusting the air to fuel by restricting the air to make it run right , or adjust the needle and/or increase the jet to increase gas. The needle raises more by vacuum generated by the venturi effect. That is air rushing by the opening in the bottom of the slide (1). So as more air moves past that little opening in the slide the vacuum increases inside the slide (2). Since it has a vent to the outside air (3), it is pushed up allowing more fuel in (4).

Now it is true that a certain amount of restriction is designed into the CV carbs for them to work correctly. So it is a delicate balance of air flow balanced with proper fuel delivery. That is the nature of CV carbs, they offer compensatory mechanisms for a wide spectrum of environments but you have to get them balanced out correctly.

[jerryscript]

Jan 16, 2015 19:49:33 GMT -6 scoot said:

scoot,jct842,cyborg,jerryscript Ok I've been wheighting for larger main jets and they just showed up in the mail believe it or not.I'm now running a 110 main the new jets are a 112 and a 115 so if I under stand you I may fix the problem with a larger jet .and yes I know I'll have to readjust the a/f is the starting point 1 1/2 out or 2 1/2 out? I've heard both.I look forward to your comments.

Have you already raised the needle all the way? If so, then start with the 112 jet and 2 1/2 turns out is a good general starting point, but it's just that, a starting point. If it doesn't start at that setting, and you don't understand the sounds to diagnose the issue, a good old standby is to smell the exhaust. If it smells very strong of gas, then you try leaning it out by a half turn and attempt to start again.

Remember, the 2 1/2 turns out is just a starting point when making major changes to the air/fuel system. When you are just moving the needle clip, you are not changing idle, so you leave the a/f screw alone until you take it for a ride and see how it performs under load. Alleyopp has an excellent 4T tuning guide that describes how to test during a ride and what to adjust based on results.

Note - If you haven't set your valves within the past 6 months, I would do so before doing a re-jet, just to be sure everything is dialed in. Otherwise you may be compensating for poor valve lash with a/f adjustments, and not truly tuning your carb.

[scoot]

jerryscript Haven't touched the needle yet.was going to try restricting the air flow internally at the air cleaner first.the values were set about 2 months ago,don't think that's the problem the scooter ran well before I disconnected the pars.and that's the rub when I first disconnected it, it ran great.but it was a warm day and I let the scooter warm up till the chock went off.the next time I started it was the next morning it was a little cold (cold for Cal.anyway 50 degrees)the scooter started just fine warmed it up than try ed to give it throttle no go, just fell on it's face and died.that's when I started to play with it and came up with the towel around the air cleaner fix and it worked.I'm puzzled .if the re stricter doesn't work I'll try your needle idea.if by chance my carb. isn't adjustable where can I get the washers?thanks for all your help. scoot,jct842,cyborg,jerryscript,Bashan

[cyborg]

if you have to restrict air flow to get this thing right when its warm,,,,and runs good on the enrichner then when it closes it "fell on its face",,,you are too lean and you need to upjet,,,Alley will chime in here i'm sure,,,he's running a pod filter setup and it runs great so i'm sure it's a lean condition,,,have you checked the diaphrgm for holes or small tears?,,,that would not let the needle rise and could be it,,,,,,

[jerryscript]

Jan 17, 2015 13:36:55 GMT -6 scoot said:

jerryscript Haven't touched the needle yet.was going to try restricting the air flow internally at the air cleaner first.the values were set about 2 months ago,don't think that's the problem the scooter ran well before I disconnected the pars.and that's the rub when I first disconnected it, it ran great.but it was a warm day and I let the scooter warm up till the chock went off.the next time I started it was the next morning it was a little cold (cold for Cal.anyway 50 degrees)the scooter started just fine warmed it up than try ed to give it throttle no go, just fell on it's face and died.that's when I started to play with it and came up with the towel around the air cleaner fix and it worked.I'm puzzled .if the re stricter doesn't work I'll try your needle idea.if by chance my carb. isn't adjustable where can I get the washers?thanks for all your help. scoot,jct842,cyborg,jerryscript,Bashan

That 50 degree temperature mark is right at the point air temp can affect a/f for someone who has tuned for 80-90 degree weather. At 50 degrees, the air is more dense, and is just beginning to push the a/f ratio too far to the extra oxygen side. So it's normal for you to have experienced those symptoms under those conditions. Three of us believe you are lean, we could all be wrong, but start working on that by either raising the needle, or upjetting, and let us know how it's going.

[jerryscript]

BTW- The washers for raising a non-adjustable needle you can get at any hardware store. Take your needle and diaphragm with you so you find one that has an inner diameter that fits all the way up the needle, and an outer diameter that will fit in the diaphragm. My 50cc can take a large washer in the diaphragm, my 150cc has a collar around the needle and can only take very small washers.

[scoot]

scoot,jct842,cyborg,jerryscript,Bashan Hi guys,petty sure I got it fixed,took your advice and started with the new jets I talked about earlier in this tread. first a 112 to small than 115 that worked well didn't need the towel raped around the air cleaner any more(lol).but still had some of the bogging problem,so I took jerryscript's advice and took a look at the needle position my needle was one of the fix t type,luckily I found some washers (in all my junk) that was the right size ,only needed one,put it in and WALLA work like a champ.no more bogg no towel around the air cleaner.scooter runs great,went for a test ride got her up to 58 mph. had to take the carb on and off a few times but in the long run it was worth it.got to keep the air cleaner I wanted and no more bogg got one more test to run. see if it starts and runs well in the morning temps. thanks to all of you and your good advice.now on to the next up grade,just can't leave it alone.Thanks again. Scoot