Discussion on Performance CDIs and Coils By JoeyBee (Read 4,374 times)

[JoeyBee]

Has anyone done any testing on whether after market performance or racing CDIs and coils have any benefit over stock?

The one video I can find online found they were very similar to stock or less beneficial. Even just a gimmick. I understand NGK makes a better quality product, but it's not sold as a performance enhancer.

[Alleyoop]

The CDIs that advance the timing do give you a hair more power. But mostly all that hoopla what it does give you is better burn of the fuel(few more mpg), easier starts and smoother idles. As far as any real performance that most are looking for which is more top end and or great low end power and getting up to speed, none of that.
Alleyoop

[JoeyBee]

Thanks for the reply Alley. I might as well get a set to test. Worst case scenario I can use them as spares and diagnostics.

[Deleted]

From all of the testing I have done here are the results at my expense The "New Racing" CDI's are as cheap as they sound and do squat but hinder colder starts. The only CDI I have found to work is the Kitaco's that I run because they are actually a real CDI which are heavier by a lot and don't really hinder cold starts while actually giving some more rev but not much. The stock CDI is what I have to run in the winter months here for a guaranteed cold start and they get better MPG by a few mpg. Sorry alley oop but I have to disagree saying I have never experiences more mpg except possibly from my Kitaco.

As far as the coil wires. The only one that works is the NGK ones. They are a real company and when paired with the Iridium plug you are good for years to come. The orange ones that are always sold with the "new racing" cdi's are the same as stock but just orange. Infact I use a stock wire now because they are less brittle after being weathered and haven't had a problem with one yet. If you do use a orange wire then just lube it up every 2! months. 'or avoid it altogether is my suggestion' However I run a cop on my 150 so I get ultimate spark over anything else out there on the market. Hope this helps.

[JoeyBee]

@turbotyler. Thanks for the advice. My thoughts on the subject are the same as yours.

I have decided to try one of the advancing CDIs. Other than that I'm sticking I with the NGK plug and wire. It may inhibit the "racing" or "performance" of my scooter. But I doubt it.

[rapidjim]

Jan 15, 2015 19:51:45 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

The CDIs that advance the timing do give you a hair more power. But mostly all that hoopla what it does give you is better burn of the fuel(few more mpg), easier starts and smoother idles. As far as any real performance that most are looking for which is more top end and or great low end power and getting up to speed, none of that.
Alleyoop

Jan 27, 2015 5:17:16 GMT -6 @turbotyler said:

From all of the testing I have done here are the results at my expense The "New Racing" CDI's are as cheap as they sound and do squat but hinder colder starts. The only CDI I have found to work is the Kitaco's that I run because they are actually a real CDI which are heavier by a lot and don't really hinder cold starts while actually giving some more rev but not much. The stock CDI is what I have to run in the winter months here for a guaranteed cold start and they get better MPG by a few mpg. Sorry alley oop but I have to disagree saying I have never experiences more mpg except possibly from my Kitaco.

As far as the coil wires. The only one that works is the NGK ones. They are a real company and when paired with the Iridium plug you are good for years to come. The orange ones that are always sold with the "new racing" cdi's are the same as stock but just orange. Infact I use a stock wire now because they are less brittle after being weathered and haven't had a problem with one yet. If you do use a orange wire then just lube it up every 2! months. 'or avoid it altogether is my suggestion' However I run a cop on my 150 so I get ultimate spark over anything else out there on the market. Hope this helps.

Sorry Tyler but I agree with Alley on this one. I have found that the performance CDIs do what Alley said and also the older scooters have a rev limited CDI, the performance CDIs do not. I also have converted AC powered CDI systems to DC powered, eliminating the CDI AC power from the circuit and using DC power, this eliminates cranking the motor to power the CDI.

I also disagree with your statement about orange (red) coils. These coils deliver 5% to 15% more voltage over the stock coils to the spark plug. More power to the plug, the better the burn. You are burning more of the fuel which leads to a little better fuel mileage, less plug fouling and a more efficient engine.

[Alleyoop]

The only CDI I have found to work is the Kitaco's that I run because they are actually a real CDI which are heavier by a lot and don't really hinder cold starts while actually giving some more rev but not much. The stock CDI is what I have to run in the winter months here for a guaranteed cold start and they get better MPG by a few mpg. Sorry alley oop but I have to disagree saying I have never experiences more mpg except possibly from my Kitaco.

..lol so much for your great KITACO's CDI's if they hinder starting. I have to add what does being heavier have to do with quality. You have a funny way of determining what is good and what is not good. Have you ever taken a BLUE CDI apart the worst CDI around they are filled with SAND yes SAND and Sand does not desiapte heat that well, those are also a little heavy for their size.

To get a little more mpg is not up to the CDI, a CDI controls the voltage that will be released to the coil to fire the plug, that is all a CDI does. To get a little more mpg you need a good coil and a good plug to get a good fire going to ignite the fuel in the chamber. Like Jim said the more voltage going to the plug the better it will ignite more of the fuel in the chamber at once and you get more power with less fuel.
Alleyoop

[tvnacman]

Can you post a video with a timing light and shoot the timing curve for the Kitaco ? I would like to compare it to


John

[Deleted]

I though you should remember that the heavier amps etc were the better ones. Same as a computer power supply. The more current a cdi can put out the better spark exactly. That means more mpg. You contradict yourself on this one. Why would I need to take a blue cdi apart for? I can test it on a scoot and tell from there. Also you can expect them to be cheap because they are the cheapest things out there. A stock CDI on 4t' do not have a rev limit. If there happens to be a rev limit on one then it's so far up you shouldn't be running that high of rpm to begin with. When have you ever pinged the rev limiter and needed for it to move up? I have a 150 and a 50 both fully built and fast.

[Alleyoop]

Who said anything about rev limiters? Some 50s come with rev lmited CDIs so they can pass as mopeds and limited to 30 mph some states 25 mph so they do not need license and or registration(IN SOME STATES). 150S+ never come with a CDI that is rev limited. Being a heavy CDI is not the same as a heavy amp , BIG difference.
Alleyoop

[jerryscript]

Jan 27, 2015 18:59:14 GMT -6 @turbotyler said:

You should remember that the heavier amps etc were the better ones. Same as a computer power supply. I means better parts how hard is that to understand. The more current a cdi can put out the better spark exactly. That means more mpg.

You are EXACTLY the customer they are looking for. You believe heavy=better, so they add some sand to make it feel heavy. If you like, I can sell you some sand for $10 and you can add it to any CDI you want to make it "better"!

P.T. Barnum is smiling down from above right now!

[cyborg]

There is no Magic Bullet that will inexplicably transform a small displacement scooter into a rocket,,, I use hot coils for exactly why Alley recommends them,,, hotter spark larger flame kernal better burn ,,, I do it this way. ,,, 10-20% more power with a balanced pipe and carb setup with weight loss also 1-2% coil/ cdi setup,,, synth oil after break in 2% ,,, weight loss and lots of it,,, Ti wherever whenever I can,,, I got almost 60 pounds off my current dr 350 so that's how it's done incrementally and has a cumulative affect Alley did it with a nice balanced carb and filter setup and a stroker kit and taller final drive and I'll bet 50 bux that thing hauls a$$,,, it's a well thought out approach with lots o reading that gets the job done

[Deleted]

There is not magic box. The Kitaco is more expensive just like the NCY one is for a reason. They cannot and do not advance timing as there is only one real way to do that and 90gtvert did it on youtube. If anything the CDI can add spark but it has to be one with better metal inside. More spark doesn't always mean better mpg. I do know this. The trike engines are more powerful from the factory because they have to carry all the extra weight. Think about it. Try to add all that weight to a normal 50cc from a trike and see if it will do 30-35 stock. It won't so it's no surprise your trike can have that much more power. I have never seen a rev limiter on any stock 50 cdi. Put a brand new one on the center stand and rev it to the moon. It will stop reving way into the redline which is where you don't need to be running anyhow. That is the main concept on people buying junk aftermarket CDI's. "It doesn't have a rev limiter and it will give me more spark while advancing the timing. The point is my Kitaco is better than the new racing bar none. Who knows if these give more mpg spark ect. If any of them do it's on such a small scale you don't notice.

[Alleyoop]

Jan 27, 2015 17:44:41 GMT -6 tvnacman said:

Can you post a video with a timing light and shoot the timing curve for the Kitaco ? I would like to compare it to


John

You have a lot to learn watch the video, the timing is not advanced it is sitting on the TDC mark and then as the motor is given throttle to bring up the rpms you can see the timing is advancing, pretty straight forward. Have you seen how a timing light actually works and what advancing and or retarding the timing really means?
Brent at 49scoot tested with cdi's that have FIXED Advanced timing preset. Fixed means just that the timing is already sitting at about 3 degrees advanced even before starting the motor and 3 degrees is not very much by the way.

[Deleted]

Of course the timing should increase whilst giving it more throttle. I'm sorry but I don't know of any engine that doesn't increase in timing with power. Like I said there is only one mechanical fix to the advanced timing. 90gtvert on youtube shows us how to do it the real and only effective way.