New 250cc Chrome Edition, few glitches By tk3000 (Read 6,765 times)

[philr54]

828-22.5-30 is standard for the 244cc with a 10" wheel. With a 13" wheel I guess we have a long case 244. The belt on my M3 is unmarked. Using the nominal and actual dimensions of a gy6 835 belt and the OD of the M3 belt, I come out with 918-22.5-30 as the belt size, there is a 906 belt that might also work. I also found there are 2 possible variators for the 244cc, 128mm and 138mm.
Keeping in mind my limited experience with scooters, the first thing that comes to my mind is a clutch bearing. It will work fine on the center stand but under a load you get serious belt slippage and low speeds - had that experience with my Carino. I don't know if that could cause the belt slap you spoke of - I haven't had that problem.

[kiwiscoot]

The Xingyue/ITA 16inch scoots run a 906-22.5-30 belt which may be better for you.

[tk3000]

Jul 19, 2010 23:09:29 GMT -6 philr54 said:

828-22.5-30 is standard for the 244cc with a 10" wheel. With a 13" wheel I guess we have a long case 244. The belt on my M3 is unmarked. Using the nominal and actual dimensions of a gy6 835 belt and the OD of the M3 belt, I come out with 918-22.5-30 as the belt size, there is a 906 belt that might also work. I also found there are 2 possible variators for the 244cc, 128mm and 138mm.
Keeping in mind my limited experience with scooters, the first thing that comes to my mind is a clutch bearing. It will work fine on the center stand but under a load you get serious belt slippage and low speeds - had that experience with my Carino. I don't know if that could cause the belt slap you spoke of - I haven't had that problem.

Thanks for the insights, I will contact the seller tomorrow and ask to have such parts replaced. That scooter has had lots of other issues, all such issues in conjunction makes it difficult to isolate and diagnose the main issue. What would be the best way to test the bearing into the clutch assembly?

[tk3000]

Thanks for the insights about the belt and cvt issue, phil54 and kiwiscoo. I removed the variator and clutch with my almighty impact wrench and apparently it seems fine, but I will further investigate it tomorrow.

Another thing I found out was the source of slow down and noise on my front wheel, after having removed the front wheel mud cover, I found an electrical component locked inside the mudguard making contact with the tire; so whenever the tire was rotating it would hit such thing (would anyone know what such component is?):






Also the engine was vibrating and shaking unusually, after further investigation I found out that the main bolt in the engine mount was not properly torqued; torqued it and solved the annoying vibration and noise problem. That bike definitely is not plug-and-play...

[kiwiscoot]

That looks like a beeper or a siren. Perhaps your scoot has an alarm (mostly bad news from what I've seen on this and other forums). Runs the battery down.
Perhaps your scoot is plug and play like in you go thru the scoot and plug everything back in where it's suppose to go and then you'll be able to play.....
You'll get there and have the peace of mind that you know the scoot like the inside of your hand.

[tk3000]

Jul 21, 2010 3:47:55 GMT -6 kiwiscoot said:

That looks like a beeper or a siren. Perhaps your scoot has an alarm (mostly bad news from what I've seen on this and other forums). Runs the battery down.
Perhaps your scoot is plug and play like in you go thru the scoot and plug everything back in where it's suppose to go and then you'll be able to play.....
You'll get there and have the peace of mind that you know the scoot like the inside of your hand.

kiwiscoot, that is part of the reason I have and enjoy scooters; to work on them and make improvements, and so on. But that one has had more than its fair fare of issues (structural bolts breaking inside the sub-frame parts, cvt issues, hopefully the engine bushings are ok...). Trivial things such as carburetors adjustments, etc, are to be expected when buying such type of scooters though. But I also wan to ride it!

As of now I am kind of struggling to install the belt back (in my other scooters such task was much easier...), apparently I can not stretch and open the belt enough in the variators end to fully insert the variator assembling and then be able to have the threads protruding up enough to then thread the nut in, as shown in the following pic (yeah in the clutch side I try to open the clutch to insert the belt in as much as possible, but it is very difficult by hand):

Not enough threaded are protruding off the drive shaft in order to install the bolt

Clutch bearing view:




Maybe the belt it too short, I will measure it. I also measure the engine compression (with a cold engine) and obtained around 120 PSI, does it sound ok for that type of engine? Any insights would be great.

[Cruiser]

Hi TK,

Assemble the variator without the belt. Torque the nut to 70 foot pounds. You might want to apply some blue locktite first.

Here's how I mount my belt. Get a large standard screwdriver or small pry bar (tire iron) and carefully insert into the open side (left side) of the clutch pulley. While twisting the pry bar I squeeze the right side of the clutch pulley with my right hand. Keep turning and prying as needed to open up the clutch. When this is done, you should have no problem mounting the belt.

[tk3000]

Jul 23, 2010 12:24:50 GMT -6 Cruiser said:

Hi TK,

Assemble the variator without the belt. Torque the nut to 70 foot pounds. You might want to apply some blue locktite first.

Here's how I mount my belt. Get a large standard screwdriver or small pry bar (tire iron) and carefully insert into the open side (left side) of the clutch pulley. While twisting the pry bar I squeeze the right side of the clutch pulley with my right hand. Keep turning and prying as needed to open up the clutch. When this is done, you should have no problem mounting the belt.

Hello Cruiser,

Sorry but I am not sure about what you mean by left side, and I don't see any slot where I could insert a large screwdriver to try to pry it open. I have tried using something similar to a screwdriver covered by a rag to avoid any scratch in the surface but I could not do it safely (without scratching the of walls whereon the belt is located). Would you insert the screwdriver between the polished surfaces where the belt is inserted?

thanks!
tk

[zugzug]

Yeah thats what he was talking about. With the 150 I can squeeze the clutch by hand but the 250 spring is a bit to strong to do that. If you see the way you have the belt gripped in the pic, I grab it simular with the left hand and pull it down into the clutch pulley while rocking it and kinda following the belt in with my right hand. Then once its down in the clutch a bit I turn it so that its over by the Vari like you have pictured but with more belt to work with. After a few tries you will have a workable technique.

[Cruiser]

Insert a large flat blade screwdriver between the two sheaves (halves of the clutch pulley). You should be working very near the shaft for the clutch. Twist the screwdriver like removing the cover on a can of paint. Use your strongest hand to squeeze the clutch. In my case my right hand so I used the screwdriver from the left side. Keep spinning and prying until the clutch is open enough.

[Smorkle]

On my scoot I usually pull the clutch out with both hands and let the belt slip down inside there until it bottoms out. The belt will hold the clutch side out while you put the variator side back together. I've never had any trouble doing it this way. My biggest problem has always been getting it OFF! LOL

[tk3000]

Thanks for all the insights on how to insert and install the belt, I guest after some time I got the hang of it: first I installed the bent in the variator and clutch, leaving the variator open since there was enough threads protruding from the engine shaft in order to thread the nut in and then slowly I started to pull the belt inside the clutch and thus stretching, pulling, and straighten it torwards the variator. After having some threads protruding was able to slightly thread the nut in, and from that point on I used the impact wrench which (about four hits) and stretched and straighten the variator inbetween each hit. Previously I also tried to use a large slotted screwdriver, but I was wondering if the scratches caused a screwdriver on the polished surfaces of the clutch would not somewhat compromise?

Anyhow I am still stuck with speeds of about 25mph, and whenever I try to go any faster the engine roars, bike trembles and goes nowhere beyond 25mph... I measured the belt size with a tape and obtained around 37 inches. Besides the variator, clutch and belt, what else could be the responsible for such issue; engine transmission gear maybe? Valves?

Below are some pics:


Belt reinstalled, I could not use my holding tool to install the variator since the variator is missing the holes necessary to use the holding tool.



Holding tool (can be used for the magneto to remove stator, and variator):


I would rather have used the holding too together with my torque wrench so that I could measure and apply the proper torque.

As far as dimensions for the variator and clutch I could not take all measurements as of now since they are already installed but based on the dimensions of the outside diameter they seem to be ones showed in the following links:

www.partsforscooters.com/Complete-front-variator-assembly-180-3

www.partsforscooters.com/180-108_Clutch_Assembly?sc=9&category=73532

[Cruiser]

My variator is the same as yours. It is important to torque the variator nut correctly. Here is the tool I use and it can also be used for the clutch. $15

[Cruiser]

Hi again, tk. I decided to check out your CVT video. I didn't see much clutch action. It looks like the clutch portion is binding or is frozen. Compare it to this video and pay attention to the way the clutch works:



The only other explanation that I can think of is that your CVT belt is stretching when you rev the engine. This is pretty unlikely. If the clutch is binding, it would also make belt replacement difficult. Most people can compress the clutch by squeezing with two hands. Some clutches are stiffer than others and that's why I use the screwdriver method. The tip of the screwdriver always remains in the very bottom of the clutch pulley halves. The belt never gets down that low. Check to see if the clutch works like in the video. If not, then the clutch assembly has to be removed to see why it doesn't slide back and forth on the shaft. Might be some rust in their or just a lack of grease. Very little grease is required. If you do decide to work on the clutch, please look at the tutorials on this forum first. There is a powerful spring in the assembly which could cause parts to fly unexpectedly if you remove the large flat nut.

[chyder]

Sorry to hear about the CVT problems you are having.

I bought one of these as well. My blinkers were DOA. My battery went dead and stranded me. It made / makes the same belt noise from the CVT (I haven't really noticed it lately, though...I may have learned to block it out once I opened it and saw it was just belt noise). It wouldn't start unless I shot some starting fluid into the air intake, and would only idle until it was exhausted. To keep it running, I needed to work the RPM up high constantly or it would just quit. And, there were some body / seat problems, and no spacers to allow the mirrors to be tightened down.

On the bright side, the seller (bargaintory) was fantastic about getting replacement parts to me, and were very apologetic for the issues. Apparently their mechanic guy was not going over them as well as they were being told.

So here's the issues that are resolved, with parts from the seller.

Blinkers now work fine. Bad "beeping" flasher unit.

Mirrors now much more solid after installing the spacers.

Battery is now charging, after I found that the factory forgot to plug the two stator connectors together and strapped them down to the frame well away from each other. Unstrapped, connected and re-strapped.

Damaged seat and panels replaced.

Adjusted idle and mix on the carb and it started idling properly. Was still very hard to start, so adjusted valves. Now fires right up with the remote start. No battery drain issues observed from the alarm / remote start.

Jul 15, 2010 10:32:23 GMT -6 tk3000 said:

Two flaws noticed were: 1) it does not have kill switch which seems even more essential in 250cc considering its larger displacement; and 2) it does not have a temperature gauge, only having a warning light in the instrument panel that I assume would turn on if the engine is getting too hot or about to overheat.

No kill switch is a pain. If you start the bike with the remote, you can't turn it off without it. The key switch gets overridden. So if you use the remote, make sure you have a spare battery for it. If it goes dead, or stops working, after you start the vehicle, there's no way short of pulling the plug wire or battery to shut it down.

As for the warning light, I have a feeling you will see that in action first hand. The light lights up and a high-pitched beeeeeeeeep warns you that it's overheating. My fans are both working, and the system doesn't seem to have any air in it, but it still overheats. This issue, and shaky handlebars (possibly due to out-of-round tires), are the only two issues that are keeping me from really loving this scoot. I have had it up to about 80mph on the dial, and on a frame this small, it feels like flying.

I like the small style so much, I also bought the more open M3 (as-is) from them as a project scoot. I have confidence that I will eventually be able to work out the heat and vibration issues.

I think they will be as decent with you and get you taken care of as well. Good Luck!