Freedom of Speech By mauiboy (Read 987 times)

[mauiboy]

Theres been a few stories lately in the press about extreme cases involving freedom of speech with two different outcomes.

1- www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12664346

2- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

This isn't intended to be a discussion about Islam which is no better or worse a faith than any other (Albanian Muslims rescued and safeguarded Jews in WW2, like any religion it has a few loonies at the fringe). There are loonies of all flavors out there It is rather sad that the folks in #1 didn't pay attention in school and learn about the number of Muslims that lost their lives fighting for the allied forces in WW1&2.

So in both countries there is a protected right to free speech which I applaud. However, rights come with responsibilities. There are precedents for free speech not being universal. If I threatened someone I would be charged with terroristic threats, if I said something untrue I would be charged with slander. If I insulted your wife on the street I expect to be hit (and there are legal provisions that would diminish your accountability due to my provocation). It does not cover discriminatory remarks against religions, races, genders or sexualities.

Leaving aside how grating it is that the guy in #1 is being subsidized heavily by the very state he is attacking , there has to be some recourse against those that abuse their right to free speech. I truly respect the right to free speech, it is extremely important in protecting us from tyranny, but there has to be some kind of provision for ensuring that it is not used as a cover for something more sinister. It cannot be right that on the one hand you can be charged for inciting hatred against a religion, but extremists (their specific flavor aside, Baptist , Muslim, whatever) can incite hatred themselves and hide behind free speech?

Protesting funerals of soldiers who were doing as they were told is wrong IMHO. They should be protesting the government who gave the orders. Protesting the funerals is about hatred not making a statement. Just how to define that in law without degrading the right to genuine protest

I'm curious as to how you yankees think given the different approaches to free speech between Europe and the USA

[wolfhound]

In general I would agree with you. I am not ashamed of my faith not should any man be. That
said, extremism in any faith, political movement, or government is wrong. I have close friends
of all beliefs and we respect each others right to freedom of beliefs. If one choses to not believe at all that is his right.
However, those who preach hatred in the name of religion are dangerous and misguided.
In the case that you mention I believe that the Supreme Court was in error in its judgement.
What human has the right to preach hatred in the name of God? Only those who are sick would protest at funerals for our fallen soldiers and only those who presume to tell us who
God hates would be so blind.
Now, back to scooter stuff!!!!

[mauiboy]

Rats, sorry if I offended anyone. Moving from Europe to the USA has highlighted quite a few ingrained cultural differences. Both have freedom of speech (both limited to a degree, just try posting diplomatic cables and you'll see ) but implemented in a different manner. I was curious as to peoples thoughts on how free speech is and should be Again apologies if I overstepped the line. We can get back to bemoaning fuel prices

[wolfhound]

MB, I dont think that you overstepped the line at all. If you want to see how far we in this
country have strayed from the founders intents and advice, go to www.freedom press.com
and check out their Founders Daily Quotes. These men pretty well had it nailed down. However then was then and now is now.

[ccprof]

Those funeral protesters? Around here, they've been met by a couple dozen vets on motorcycles.

[wolfhound]

And a fitting greeting it is!!!! And it would be even more fitting if they were met
with such a greeting, conducted peacefully, at every service of their family
owned " church".

[madcollie]

I only have one thing say and to the protesters...

M/C

Attachments:

[ccprof]

Well some of us swore to protect and defend the Constitution and that's what gives those bozos the freedom.

Here's to our fallen! It's what they deserve!

[madcollie]

Larry, I like your salute better. Hats off to all your brothers-in-arms!
There's no BULL crap there!
Let us not forget that this forum is on the net and not ALL experience the same freedom OR privileges that most of we do.

Mauiboy, do you need a better explanation?

M/C

[benellibob]

i will proudly admit that i am against the war in iraq and afganistan.

but the military is MOSTLY a bunch of honerable folks who are just following orders. they deserve respect and a protest free funeral as much as any other person. its the GOVERNMENTS that are at fault that have been PURCHASED by corporate greed that is destroying our country.

[Alleyoop]

Let me tell you about our government:
I came back from Nam in a body cast and one arm in a cast as well. They sent to Great Lakes Military Hospital and was in traction in my bed. There were hundreds of us in there, and a Military person was coming to each bed and offering the guys a $3,000.00 check if they waived all Disability payments. He came to my bed and I told him I would like to speak to a Lawyer before signing anything. He said I will get you one, I said no I will get my own lawyer.
I called home and told my folks to get a lawyer and have him call me. He called me and I explained what they were doing and he said I will come down with the Options Avaliable and you can decide which is best.

He came down went over the options and said there are three Options and one is a no brainer:
1. Take only VA Disability.
2. Take only Army Disability.
3. Take both VA and ARMY Disability and no matter which one is higher you will always get a seperate check from the highest making up the difference from the lowest.

So Like he said Option 3 was a no brainer, I am rated 60% from the VA and 80% from the Army so I receive two disability checks.

Now the bad thing about this was that many took the $3,000.00 and waived any rights to any future Disability compensation. So they went out and bought a brand new car and for the rest of their lifes they get nothing except of course medical treatment but no Disability Compensation. NICE WAY TO TREAT THE TROOPS HUH!!
Alleyoop

[wolfhound]

Alley, that situation that you describe did exist, sadly, at that time. The Gov. was trying
to cut costs then but this was a a poorly thought out effort. It is no longer being
practiced.
You did exactly the right thing in exploring your options and choosing the one that would
best serve you. You earned it and deserved it. We owe you and all the others who served
a great debt of gratitude and thanks.
Ride on, brothers and sisters.

[mauiboy]

Thanks folks

[madcollie]

Mauiboy, and anyone else

If you've never seen the or heard this then may I suggest you watch the vid. "Billy Jack" several times. It has a lot to do with free speech and freedom in general in what was suppose to be a FREE NATION!

M/C/