Another cfmoto charging problem after HID install By jalat (Read 4,384 times)

[jalat]

At first two weeks I had no problem. I ride couple 60-160 mile trip with no problem.

Then I replaced 25W + 25W bulb headlights to 35W + 35W HID. (+20W)
And replaced front runninglights 2*3W and registry plate light 5W to leds. (about -10W)
Also replaced break lights to leds (-10 to 20W)

So I guess My current draw should be near what it was at the beginning. But no. I checked cool battery and it said 12.8V. Then took a ride 15 miles with xenon lights on. Stopped scooter and let it cool for ten minutes. Then checked the battery again. It was 12.6V.
Not good.

I think I need to change all the Dashboard lights to leds. But how many and what kind of bulbs are they?

[yoster]

They all use the normal 194's, except the turn signal/bright indicator lights. Those use smaller ones; can't remember (edit - they are 74's).

The dash itself (for the gauges) uses 3 LED's (left, center and right); just buy 3 194's that have a flat surface, like the ones with 4 SMT LED's on the face.

Note - I never really fully fixed my charging issue until I swapped out the RR for the one from OMP. Some here have done other things to get around it... aka I think Cruiser runs with only 1 of his 2 headlights on. The stock Chinese RR's on these things are definitely a weak link in the charging system.

[edit] - Here's the ones I used behind the gauges - 3 of them (not from this vendor, but same bulbs):
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-x-T10-194-Turn-Indicator-Bulbs-Light-SMD-4-LED-White-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4aabdeb658QQitemZ320711079512QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_3003wt_1165

And here are the type I used for the turn/brights indicators:
cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10x-T5-74-WHITE-3-CHIP-SMD-DASHBOARD-LED-CAR-LIGHT-BULB-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem588e5e9004QQitemZ380345683972QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_3359wt_980

Here's the guy I always order from:
myworld.ebay.com/warden_jp2002/

[tvnacman]

do you guys know who has the S2 25w bulbs ?

[Cruiser]

All good info from yoster including my running with one headlight on for daytime use. I also changed out the original fan with a direct replacement which uses 2 to 3 amps less with the same cooling power.

www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=1024&osCsid=2bf68d71e32fe413cbb745cbd96ddb55

LED changes and a more efficient fan should put you back on the plus side for charging.

[jalat]

Jun 7, 2011 15:26:18 GMT -6 yoster said:

They all use the normal 194's, except the turn signal/bright indicator lights. Those use smaller ones; can't remember (edit - they are 74's).

The dash itself (for the gauges) uses 3 LED's (left, center and right); just buy 3 194's that have a flat surface, like the ones with 4 SMT LED's on the face.

Thanks yoster!
I ordered a bunch of those leds (25) ;D

Default stock lights
(headlights 2*25W)
+ (registry plate light 5W)
+ (front running lights 2x3W)
+ (gauge lights 3x3W)
+ (gauge smaller indicator lights 3x1,4W)
= 74,2W


I didn't know how much smd-led element takes power consumption. I googled around and finally found this
www.ledsmaster.com/0-5watt-3528-SMD-LED-140.html
1 smd led = 0.5W. So I use this in my calculation depending how many smd-element is in which bulb.

With leds and hids
(headlights HID 2*35W)
+ (registry plate light 4,5W)
+ (front running lights 2x2W)
+ (gauge lights 3x2W)
+ (gauge smaller indicator lights 3x0,5W)
= 86,4W


Only led light modification with HIDs doesn't do enough. I hope smd leds use less than 0.5W per element. And other smd-elements are smaller. I calculated all of them with same 0.5W.

I need to save about 10 more watt.

[jalat]

Jun 7, 2011 17:59:33 GMT -6 Cruiser said:

I also changed out the original fan with a direct replacement which uses 2 to 3 amps less with the same cooling power.

www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=15&products_id=1024&osCsid=2bf68d71e32fe413cbb745cbd96ddb55

LED changes and a more efficient fan should put you back on the plus side for charging.

Nice fan! Thanks!


The conversion of Watts to Amps is governed by the equation Amps = Watts/Volts

For example 12 watts/12 volts = 1 amp

So if I need 12 more watts to save (last post calculation) I need to save 1-2 more amps. That cooling fan could do it. Stock cooling fan is very noisy. Propably really cheap construction and bad design. Maybe also huge amp user.

Hmm... have any of you guys tried that fan Cruiser linked?
Is fan easy to change?
Do I need to remove how much plastic because it is big?
Is it installed from bottom?
And does it mount good?

[Cruiser]

Hi Jalat. I replaced my fan while doing a PDI, so most of my plastics were removed. You might be able to get access by removing the two bottom panels and the belly pan and working from underneath if you can get the scooter up high enough.

If I remember correctly, to adapt the fan, all I did was remove the grill and install the grill from the scoot's OEM fan. All that was left was to adapt the connectors to fit on the scoot.

[jalat]

I ordered that 7" fan from siliconeIntakes.com. Hopefully that and dashboard led mod would be enough. Here have been really hot last days. 85'F which is not normal in Finland in june. Best you can do is ride with scooter to cool yourself. And drink a LOT of water.

[damin69]

Jalat, The other thing that does help is putting one of your HID headlights on a switch so that in day time you can shut one off. Generally at night it is cool enough that the fan does not run as much so with the light on then it levels out the system draw.

[jalat]

That sounds good, but the HID set of mine is the one which should be connected to car. There is only one relay and one H4 connector for original headlight connector. Therefore it is connected to only another original headlight connector and I can't do switch. There is 23 000 volt current in HID system so I don't start cutting HID system wires for switch

It would be easier if you have two separate HID + relay systems. I wish I would have been ordered one like that.

But now I'm waiting for mail man to bring me:
- more led lights for dashboard
- 7" 3amp fan

And I just bought new better fusebox to replace that original glass fuse.
Then I hope I'm fine Maybe I get enough charge to drive with navigator connected and can install remote alarm

[Cruiser]

Jun 8, 2011 23:31:26 GMT -6 jalat said:

That sounds good, but the HID set of mine is the one which should be connected to car. There is only one relay and one H4 connector for original headlight connector. Therefore it is connected to only another original headlight connector and I can't do switch. There is 23 000 volt current in HID system so I don't start cutting HID system wires for switch

It would be easier if you have two separate HID + relay systems. I wish I would have been ordered one like that.

But now I'm waiting for mail man to bring me:
- more led lights for dashboard
- 7" 3amp fan

And I just bought new better fusebox to replace that original glass fuse.
Then I hope I'm fine Maybe I get enough charge to drive with navigator connected and can install remote alarm

Hi Jalat. You have a similar HID system to mine. There is only one controller/relay, but there are two ballasts. The controller feeds 12 volts to the two ballasts which turns on both lights at the same time. By mounting a switch in the 12 volt feed line to one of the ballasts, you are able to turn that light on and off independent of the other. I keep my daytime light aimed as a low beam and have the second light set up like a high beam for night use.

My scoot came with the remote alarm setup. I had to disconnect it because it randomly would set itself off for no reason.

[jalat]

Another day for invetigating ;D

This week postman bring me that another regulator rectifier and silicone intake systems 3Amp fan. Today I decided to strip my scooter. Try that new R/R and check the wirings and stuff. Here are the results.

Fan
Stock radiator fan took 3.71 amp.
Silicone itake systems fan took 2.33 amp.
That is 1.38 amp less (-37%) using new fan. I didn't yet change it so the old fan still stays in scooter.

Stator
I used multimeter and tested all three yellow wires and when idle all of them show about 36 volts.
And when I rev even a little all of them show easily 60-70 volts.
So I guess stator is ok.


Regulator rectifier
I put hid light on and measured volts from battery.
Stock R/R 14.10 volts when idling and 14.13 volts when 4000rpm.
New R/R 14.52 volts when idling and 14.30 volts when 4000rpm.

I let that new one stay on scooter. And checked then what red wire from R/R show.
14.72 volts when idling and 14.59 volts when 4000rpm.

So I let that old charging wire stay and put another good wire also from R/R to battery. Good soldered connection and 10 amp blade fuse also.


Improvement so far:
When idle 14.10v -> 14.72v.
When 4000rpm 14.13v -> 14.59v.


But still it wasn't enough to charge when lights on and fan on.
With old R/R and fan and hid on 12.28v.
With new R/R extra wire) and fan and hid on 12.46v.


What do you guys think. If I install that new fan which use -37% less current. Could that be enough to charge Battery when both my hid lights are on and fan is on?

[damin69]

Again. I have a toggle on one of my lights. During the day when the fan runs the most I only run one HID. Then at night when it is cool where the fan do not run much I run both lights. The fan should get you into the sweet spot. But if it does not consider putting a toggle switch on one of your HIDs.

[jalat]

Yes I know. But that will be the final and ultimate solution if all the other things won't help. I want both HIDs

[jalat]

Damn! I guess I have to face the truth.
Today I tried to connect that low amp fan directly to battery and stared engine with HIDs on. Not enough charging power

I guess I just have to do the modification so that one HID is burning at the LOW light and both when using HI light.

I guess I need one more relay for that.


Edit: I just tested that by disconnecting another ballast wire connection. With just one HID on and fan on I got 13.33v when idling. And when I rev up to 4000rpm I got 14.70v.
That is the best solution.

Next question is which one let to burn when driving using LOW light?