Scooter cannot start, cranks though. By lacrosseguy (Read 6,075 times)

[lacrosseguy]

so heres the story. bought a broken scooter, it didn't run. broke the kickstart and the electrical system was bad. replaced my cdi,coil, spark plug,and battery along with a new carburetor, valve adjusting, oil change, gear oil change, and valve adjusting she fired up. i was riding over to my girlfriends house and i just died at a stop light slowly off of an idle and could not start back up. then i called my dad and he brought me starter fluid and i got back home . and now my scooter cannot start back up. I have tried adjusting my valves again and it makes no difference. here are two videos to help also .

[Alleyoop]

Ok the First one sounds like your Bendix is not retracting fully back and is scraping against the Variator Front plate.

Ok, It is not even attempting to fire, So lets check some things first.
1. Take the Spark plug out OR if you have a Spare Plug pull the boot off the One on the motor and stick the Spare plug into the BOOT CAP.
2. Then HOLD metal part of the PLUG against the VALVE COVER so that you can see if it Sparks. Now crank the starter and see if the spark plug is sparking.

3. If the Spark Plug is fireing now we need to check if gas is being sucked into the motor. So take the Vacuum hose off the INTAKE Manifold and squirt a little gas into the VACUUM Port and put the hose back on and crank it and see if IT ATTEMPTS TO START.


GET back on those two tests, If you are not getting SPARK do not bother checking for the fuel delivery problem.
We have to then attack the NO SPARK PROBLEM.
Alleyoop

[millsc]

scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=55624 and scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=55624&page=2 here the threads alley i couldn't help him i sent him to you

[lacrosseguy]

could my spark plug blow out after only a months use ?

but i will do these tests on video tommorrow mourning/afternoon before i go to work .

[Alleyoop]

Sure your plug can go bad also it could be loose and looseing compression You may want to take it out and check it and then you will know if it is loose and not screwed in good. Now be carefull do not overtighten the Plug when you screw it in Just nice and SNUGE DO NOT CRANK ON IT or you can break it or worse strip the threads in the head. JUST NICE AND SNUGE.
Also you can see if the SPARK PLUG IS WET OR DRY.


Now that sound that you hear YOU DO know that the END OF THE BENDIX fits in a HOLE SLOT inside the CVT COVER, It holds the BENDIX STRAIGHT, and allows it to RETRACT after the starter stops.
Alleyoop

[millsc]

alley is a scooter genius if he cant get you going no one can hang in there you'll be on the road again

[Alleyoop]

To find a no start problem you always check the basics:
1. Spark
2. Fuel Delivery problem
3. Compression

Now each of those can be caused by multiple things but once you find if its 1,2 or 3 then its just a matter checking the things that effect that leg of the system.


SINCE YOU HAVE the CVT off take the BENDIX out and get WD-40 and spray inside and turn the BENDIX with your hand to make it move in and out as you spray inside It should retract if you turn it out and let go it has a spring inside to push it back from the extended position.

Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Oct 25, 2012 22:57:08 GMT -6 millsc said:

alley is a scooter genius if he cant get you going no one can hang in there you'll be on the road again

Thanks for the KUDOS Millsc i am no genie ;D . I work by first finding the leg of the scoot system that is having a problem. And to find the leg is pretty easy then depending on which leg the problem lies it gets harder or pretty easy to find the culprit. So we all hope it is not a nasty Leg(Electrical)

Fuel is easy, Compression is easy(but will cost work and money).

Heck for all we know right now it could just be a Wire that came loose maybe when he was riding he went over tracks or hit some nasty bumps etc..

So the 2 tests checking for spark and fuel will tell a lot. Because if it is getting spark and he squirts some gas directly into the Vacuum Port on the manifold IT WILL FIRE and may start and die.
Alleyoop

[lacrosseguy]

Okay , i did the tests and have video but its taking forever to upload . But i do have spark, how much am i sopposed to have ? And then i poured gas into my vacuume inlet on my manifold and it did attempt to start more but did not start up

[Alleyoop]

GREAT!! Getting Spark is good news and if it attempted to fire when you squirted gas into the intake like I said it would we are almost there. I will wait for the VIDEO.
Alleyoop

[lacrosseguy]

db.tt/gIL6cj9P
Spark video. I just watched it and the only o art that's good is most likely the end. I was trying to do it with only 2 hands.
db.tt/qpXJrvwl
There's the fuel vid. Too

[Alleyoop]

Did you CLEAN out the BENDIX in the CVT? Reason I ask is it APPEARS it is NOT RETRACTING and making that aweful scrapping noise against the Variator Fan Pulley.
Also are you sure you put the CVT COVER on right and The END OF THE BENDIX shaft into the SLOT in the CVT COVER INSIDE THE COVER to hold it nice and straight?

To put a little gas down the Vacuum Line Get A Plastic CUP and put a little gas and then squeeze the cup to make a POINT to pour some down the Hose. That way you won't get gas all over the place.



Well I did NOT SEE ANY SPARK at all.
Here is a Video on how to test for spark.
The Video shows it holding on the frame But that is not correct to test for Spark you shoud HOLD THE SPARK PLUG on the motor, Valve cover etc..
REASON TO TEST ON THE MOTOR IS:
It could spark on the frame BUT it may not spark on the motor which it must do. If the MOTOR IS NOT GROUNDED to the Frame it will NOT SPARK. So there must be a GROUND WIRE FROM THE MOTOR TO THE FRAME.

I also noticed your CARB is all loose that is NOT GOOD that is what we alway say to check for AIR LEAKS if your carb is all loose like that it will suck in to much air and no fuel. I noticed you do NOT have a CLAMP holding the Carb onto the INTAKE MANIFOLD. It and appears you have tape on it instead of a clamp.

Also when you first cranked it i saw GAS squirting out of someplace. The Fuel and Vacuum is a Closed system you cannot have leaks.


Also since you have the spark plug out check the compression:
This Video shows you how as well:

scooterdoc.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=electrical&action=display&thread=2665

BUT IF YOU KNOW YOU HAVE SPARK THEN I DID Notice that the SPARK PLUG WAS DRY and the color indicates LEAN CONDITION NOT ENOUGH FUEL. So do the fuel tests:

You can start checking for fuel Flow to the Carb. Get a Container to catch fuel then Take the FUEL HOSE Off the Carb and put it in the Container. Now crank the motor over and see if fuel flows into the Container.

1.
If it flows we are good for Fuel Flow to the Carb. Go To INITIAL CARB ADJUST:

If no Fuel Flow then if you have a Fuel Filter on the HOSE line take that OFF and AGAIN CRANK it over again. If fuel then flows change the Fuel Filter or for now take it off. GO TO LETS TRY:

2.
IF the Fuel DOES NOT FLOW even with the Fuel FILTER OFF, THEN TAKE The Vacuum HOSE off BY the Carb going to the PETCOCK and APPLY SUCTION to the VACUUM HOSE SUCK ON THE HOSE and see if FUEL FLOWS. IF it Does not FLOW then your PETCOCK is bad.

3.
IF it DOES FLOW then the problem is SUCTION FROM THE MOTOR or your hose has cracks in it and is leaking.


******************** REDO VALVES *******************
At this point I would RECOMMEND and go to the auto parts store and get a FEELER GUAGE SET which have at LEAST .004 thin feeler gauge in the set. Some sets start at .008 which you do not want that is to wide of a gap for the valves. So make sure the Feeler Gauge Set has at least .004 feeler.

Now re-adjust your valves to .004 BOTH OF THEM and Go To INITIAL CARB ADJUST.

****
INITIAL CARB ADJUST:

Turn the Fuel Ratio Screw CLOCKWISE until it stops then turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE 2 1/2 turns. Now try to start it if still no start At this point Take YOUR PLUG out and SEE IF IT IS WET or DRY. If WET Go To COMPRESSION TEST.

If DRY go to CLEAN CARB:

COMPRESSION TEST:

We now have to test for COMPRESSION of the motor. WHEN TESTING COMPRESSION you have to have the THROTTLE WIDE OPEN SO YOU CAN TWIST IT AND TAPE IT OPEN or have someone hold the throttle wide open.


Take the PLUG OUT and If you have a compression gauge use that. DESCENT compression to allow a motor to run descent is 120 the MIN, 150 is good and anything above 150 is excellent.

IF you don't have a Compression Gauge STICK YOUR FINGER in the hole and hold it nice and snuge THEN OPEN THE THROTTLE ALL THE WAY and crank it. IF it has descent compression for the motor to run it will blow your finger off the hole. If it doesn't blow your finger off the hole then the motor has major internal problems either the rings are shot or the valves.



CLEAN CARB:

Get yourself a SPRAY CAN OF CARB CLEANER they come with a long thin straw to get into small places.



Take the BOWL off and unscrew the PILOT JET and clear the jet out YOU SHOULD BE able to see daylight through the JET.

Then with the JEt still out stick the thin straw into the hole and spray and here is where SPRAY SHOULD COME out clearing the PILOT JET PASSAGES.





I think this is enough to get to the bottom of the problem.

Alleyoop

[millsc]

sounds like my bendix when it went bad i replaced it and all is good if it cant crank it cant start www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Clutch-Bendix-4T-GY6-139QMB-50cc-/160803175236?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&hash=item25709dbb44&vxp=mtr

[Alleyoop]

Hi Millsc,
Yea he has more than one problem, the Bendix is not working right for one, then I believe he also needs a new INTAKE MANIFOLD since he has it all taped up and no clamps on it. Also I did not see any spark but maybe I missed it I looked at the Vid several times trying to see If I could see it sparking but I did not see it the way he was holding it. Did you happen to see the spark plug sparking?

I was LOL reading the thread on SD that idiot on SD Idrancer prancer turkey(HAHA).
Alleyoop

[millsc]

ldrancer is a moron i know when i cant give the help needed so i try to get elsewhere ive learned alot but yet and still im not on the level you are on hence why i come here to ask you for help like ive said many times i learned the most from you on the other forum and made money from doing bbk kits in my town hopefully lacrosseguy gets his scoot up and running i'll leave it to you i couldnt get it figured out for him im sure you can