TRY TRY Again.. Still at a loss By justguy1 (Read 9,164 times)

[Alleyoop]

So the best for him now is to LOOK AT YOURS and see HOW the TWO BIG WIRES on the SOLENOID are connected and where each go and come from. If he has them correct he blew something and the SOLENOID is always passing juice no matter what.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Read what you posted on RIDE:
So there is no ground from the battery to the FRAME?? I would of thought that you would disconnect the LIVE WIRE not the NEGATIVE don't forget the live wire is ALWAYS feeding juice to the KEY. So maybe without a ground it is causing problems or blew something out.
Did you connect anything or change the SOLENOID TERMINAL wires.
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

I guess I miss understood when I saw bashan's picture of the cartoon like thing that he had.. What I did what took the wire that was connected to the negative terminal of the battery and put that on the bottom of the battery disconnect, then used a battery wire I had from an old scooter and connected that to the top of the battery disconnect and connected the other side to the negative of the battery terminal.

Did not know that it had to be connected to the positive side. I was trying to find the post that Bashan put up with the drawing. So how do I test if the solenoid is shot??

But the thing is. when I turn the battery disconnect key off.. you can't start the scooter.. everything gets shut down there is no juice going to the scooter.. when I turn the battery disconnect key back on then it starts... So I am really really confused now... IM so glad for you guys on this board I would be more lost without you all..

[Alleyoop]

What I MEANT is most would have LEFT the GROUND alone and HOOKED UP the POSITIVE CABLE to the DISCONNECT. The Ground wire from the BATTERY to the FRAME EFFECTS a lot of stuff that depends on things being grounded from the SOURCE they are getting the juice from.

Ok NOW LET me ask this THE DISCONNECT IS IT GROUNDED TO THE FRAME? If it is just in the PLASTIC THAT IS PART OF YOUR PROBLEM, THE BATTERY IS NOT REALLY GROUNDED to the FRAME.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

I need to clarify something, on this bike the negative cable off of the battery runs to a frame ground. It is in the middle of this cable that I installed the cutoff switch. Of course the black cable off of the solenoid runs to the starter and then is grounded through the starter mount on the case. Do not put the cutoff switch in the solenoid ground wire, it will simply prevent the starter from working:

[justguy1]

Ok.. So here is what I did.. I can get a video if needed...

Ok, so the picture the battery normal.... I took the wire that was connected to the negative terminal.. and connected that to the shut off then ran another wire to the batter terminal.. I guess where im confused is Wasn't the original wire that was on the terminal grounded?? So did I connect the grounded wire to the shut off?? and nothing was grounded to the battery terminal?? Did that cause anything to be shorted out?? I guess im gonna have to redo the shut off... question is as stupid as it sounds... How do i ground something to the frame of the original one is already grounded to the frame??? Guys im so sorry for sounding stupid.. Just don't know ..

[Alleyoop]

The problem is that YOUR DISCONNECT IS NOT GROUNDED TO THE FRAME. IF IT WAS IT WOULD BE OK but you have it going through PLASTIC.


You can still use the DISCONNECT off the NEG like you had it BUT:
1. Take the Cable from the NEGATIVE POST off the FRAME(LEAVE IT ATTACHED TO THE NEG POST ON THE BATTERY).
2. ATTACH THAT END TO YOUR SWITCH.
3. Take anothe piece of wire and put it on the other terminal on the SWITCH and attach that WHERE YOU TOOK OFF THE GROUND WIRE FROM THE BATTERY. So NOW when you turn the DISCONNECT SWITCH to work IT COMPLETES THE GROUND CIRCUIT TO THE BATTERY.

When you take the KEY OUT it then DISCONNECTS the BATTERY GROUND

And yes what you did was UNGROUND THE BATTERY. So like I said that BATTERY GROUND effects things that are fed off the battery and you may have shorted out the SOLENOID or KEY SWITCH.
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

Ok.. so now im REALLY confused....

Bashan's picture shows the negative would of been directly from the starter to the battery.. So where is the ground to the frame?? Here is a picture of the setup..

Now im confused by what you said compared to the picture that Bashan put up.. He shows 2 wires connected to the frame... Yet NO wire that was connected to the battery is connected to the frame. And then you said connect only one wire to the frame.. wow this was a big mistake I made to save my battery.. should of just left it alone..

[Alleyoop]

His picture is wrong, there is no wire from the starter to the frame. THE MOTOR GROUNDS the STARTER WHICH IN TURN the MOTOR IS ALSO GROUNDED TO THE FRAME. There should be a wire from the motor usually the wire is connected to a bolt on the VALVE COVER and it goes to the frame.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Here I corrected his picture:
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

Yes, Alley's diagram is correct. What I was trying to show with my diagram is that the starter grounds to the frame as well as the negative battery terminal. In retrospect I shouldn't have put in a wire, it was just for illustration. The starter grounds to the case via the mount and then the case grounds to the frame .So you should have a cable running from the black terminal of the solenoid to the starter (green dashes). Then I ran a cable from the black terminal of the battery to my cutoff switch (red dashes). Then a cable from the cutoff to the frame ground for the Fashion which you can see in the pic (blue dashes).

I would suggest that you get that set up like you want it and then I can walk you through testing the ignition switch and ID some of the wires in question.

[justguy1]

Exactly how Alley has his drawing is HOW i have my setup..

If you take that wire from the frame that he has in the drawing WITHOUT the disconnect swith.. where does it GO??? To the battery negative terminal right??? IF so that is how I have my setup.. the frame wire is connected to the BOTTOM of the disconnect switch and the other wire goes to the negative connection of the battery. EXACTLY how in that drawing.. So now that we see that it is correct.. What else can be the cause since that hook up is correct..

These are right now what's going on.. from what someone on here said was to connect the tester to the negative and NOT the positive when testing the wires on the ignition switch.. So have to find what else can be causing this.. Since the setup WAS correct other then connecting it to the NEGATIVE side.. What else could be short.. I read on a honda helix site that it could be the starter switch that is the issue.. but not sure how the starter switch would effect the whole left handle bar side..


Ok just really looked at your picture.. MINE IS TOTALLY NOT LIKE THAT.. LOOK AT the picture of my battery.. You will see what im talking about.. According to your picture that would be the POSITIVE side of my battery, NOT The negative side. like in your drawing.... Let me try to find a picture of what im talking about.





Look at this picture.. tried to draw on it.. couldn't LOOK at the battery.. The negative side is the closest to the bottom... The Positive side you can see is red with the + sign on it. And you see the SOLENOID is on the POSITIVE side of my battery..

[Alleyoop]

Good, now we can say the switch is correct the bottom wire goes to ground and the top one goes to the batteries NEG TERMINAL.

So it appears something is cooked in the INGITION SWITCH and making contact all the time whether off or on.
Alleyoop

[Bashan]

That photo is correct, he just has a red cable running off of the negative terminal of the battery. On the CF Moto fashion the positive terminal of the battery has a short red cable to the solenoid. Then the negative side of the solenoid runs to the starter. The negative terminal of the battery runs to the frame ground. I think that guy just grabbed a red cable because it was handy.

I would like to just concentrate on one thing at a time. So even if you think the ignition switch is good let's go through it. Sometimes you have eureka moment in the most unexpected situations. I'm going to get some pics and post them for you to test your switch. Give me about a 1/2 hour.

[justguy1]

sounds like a plan.. glad we got past the disconnect switch.. LOL ..

So let me tell you guys a little of what I done and the results and we can start tackling that..

I bought a tester (the one with the metal point and the light bulb) i have a meter tester too. I clipped the tester to the POSITIVE side of the battery.. I tested the ignition connection plug from the key ignition and I posted a picture of it up here.. On the middle wire on top with the key on.. I got the bulb bright.. the middle on the bottom was DIM.. on the SOLENOID.. there are 4 wires.. looking at the battery (behind the amp) the top two lit up the bottom two did NOT... When I turned the key off.. the same wires from the ignition switch plug both lit up bright..

So those are the things I tested... Also without the key in.. when I press the start button.. the speedodemeter goes a up and down....