New Scooter, new member By FrankenMech (Read 3,507 times)

[FrankenMech]

Hello everyone.

I took the plunge to get some cheap transportation. I bought a Chinese scooter from Scooter Depot model DF50TKC also referenced as a MC_D50TKC. One of those three wheel reverse trikes. I bought it for local errands to help my 60 year old self get around. I have not ridden a scooter or motorcycle for over 35 years. I do hold a class AM Kansas license obtained in the old days by grandfathering. I don't expect much speed out of a 50cc scooter hauling my 6'4" 220# carcass around. I bought the Ruckus style open frame so I could mount three Wald folding baskets on it to carry groceries etc. I received the trike September 6th but it still has not moved under it's own power. It had minor shipping damage and they finally shipped the replacement parts today. I also bought some spares from them along with a few obtained on Amazon.com.

It does not run yet. I have no spark. I can smell fuel when it cranks. It has compression.

The voltage while cranking and resistance values to ground are:
Pickup coil; 142 Ohms, 80mV.
AC power coil; 496 Ohms, 50VAC.
Spark plug Coil resistance, 0.2 Ohms.
Coil input with leads disconnected and no load, 20VAC
Spark plug coil secondary with wire and cap, 7.75K Ohms

Other readings with initial probe resistance subtracted:
Charging coil white wire, 0.6 Ohm
Charging coil yellow wire, 0.5 Ohm

Things seem to be within spec but I have concerns. I can use suggestions.

While waiting for the spares and parts I have made a few changes. I have installed a new NGK CR7HSA spark plug. I have disconnected the kill switch and bypassed the trike-specific speed limiter circuits while testing. I have tried three AC CDI units and a new coil. The handle starter switch and kill switches did not initially make contact due to oxidation from storage and the sea trip. The trike was manufactured in 08-2012. Contact cleaner and operating the switches made electrical contact eventually. I have added a pigtail to the battery for charging and 12V power access. I have also added a set of amber strobe lights to get better visibility for a slow moving vehicle.

This vehicle had the magneto timing pickup signal wire connected through the handlebar KILL switch. That switch is not made for millivolt type signals. The timing signal is now wired directly to the CDI. The actual CDI KILL wire was paralleled through the KILL switch and ignition switch. A disconnect was added at the CDI for easy testing.

I may order a DC powered CDI and wire it in. Has anyone ever tried to power an AC CDI with actual USA standard 120VAC? I have isolation transformers and auto-transformers available.

The schematics supplied with the trike were horribly wrong. They look OK until someone actually has to use them to trace a circuit. It looks like most manufacturers issue the same generic diagram with a change or two and then make more changes without recording them. I have a pile of sketches, maybe some day I will get my CAD system back up and make a proper schematic with proper symbols and even the correct wire colors shown!!!

Personally I think several of the power circuits should be fused but I guess the scooter wiring I see is 'adequate' in most cases. Wiring and modifications are fairly easy for me. I have a problem with shaky hands due to Essential Tremor (ET) but I eventually get the job done without losing my serenity.

I hope to get my grocery getter moving soon. I don't know any enthusiasts or mechanics in my area. I see a few scooters go by my house including a reverse trike like this one. Maybe I will meet one of the other riders some day.

[redroush00]

Man that has to be frustrating. Having a brand new scoot that doesnt run. Im fortunate enough to have bought 2 this year and both have run just fine.

Also, thanks for being fair and not bashing the company you purchased from. Too many people bash them because the scooter has issues...after all they didnt build it. Now once you figure out why this one doesnt run you can review it properly. It might just be something simple you havent found yet.

[markwb]

Good Lord, I feel for you man! Hope you get it up and running soon. Welcome to the Forums, there's a lot of good people here to help with your trike. Mine is from the scooterdepot also. See you around, FrankenMech

[FrankenMech]

Thanks guys, I hope it runs soon also. I will post a pic when it is all back in one piece.

It has been running at one point. It has 1.9 miles or clicks on the speedo. I don't have any idea what units it uses. The OEM spark plug was black. I expect that on first startup since the cylinder is covered with oil etc. When I checked the spark plug with the initial no-start condition I could get a very weak yellow spark. In my automotive experience that type of spark would not work under compression.

I am not sure I got the replacement spark plug in straight either. I can no longer see well enough to discern crap in the threads. I had a devilish time getting it to start and then it only went in a couple of turns B4 I had to use a wrench. If the threads are messed up I will just have to install that 80cc kit sooner... -See, there is a positive side to everything. Someone said something like; if you have enough problems some of the problems turn out to be solutions for other problems.

I don't know of any place I can buy parts locally. What do I tell the counter man when he asks what I want? Do I tell him it is a Dongfang model but I want a DC powered CDI?

I gave all my electronic supplies and equipment to my nephew a couple months ago or I could test the CDI myself or even make one. When they sell for $5-10 online it is hard to justify a lot of effort.

I have looked everywhere and there does not seem to be a place to get the headlight bulb except from Scooter Depot. I have two on order. I touched one of the OEM bulbs when I was disconnecting the headlight assy to get to the shipping damage. I was hoping I had not touched it but Murphy and the ET hit me again.

I did buy an assortment of scooter and motorcycle connectors of Ebay along with a 'brand new in the package' crimp tool that was defective. One of the wire crimp dies was not fully formed (the one I needed most). I narrowed the jaws to fit the small connectors better and finished out the crimp die with a die file. It still needs more work but for now it is 'functioning'. I had a good AMP crimp tool but it went with all my electronic equipment. Murphy always said that whenever you dispose of something because you had not used it for years you will need it again almost immediately.

I did not install the 'free' trunk they included with the Trike. It was not large enough for my helmet and I needed a place to strap down a big package of TP, paper towels, or sack of cat food or litter. One can stack people or objects 10' high on the luggage rack, it's true, -I have seen pictures... Maybe I should get one of those HF folding trailers or a garden cart to tow behind the scooter...
Nah, I will just get my old truck running. I have a good trailer for it.

[sumdawgtwigg]

Wow, I think I would of lost it by now if I were in your position. i really hope you get her running soon and look forward to hearing about your riding adventures in the future!

[scooterbob]

Welcome. Remove the plug ground it and check for spark. If you have spark squirt some fuel in the spark plug hole, reinstall the plug and try to start it. There is a vacuum powered fuel control that allows fuel to flow only when vacuum is present. It usually connects to the carb intake manifold. if need be you can suck on the tube to get fuel to flow to the filter and to the carb. Good luck.

[FrankenMech]

I am struggling to maintain my serenity. I am used to stuff like this. Murphy has been my constant companion all my life. If it were not for bad luck I would not have any luck at all. I expected there was a 98% chance this trike would not run when I bought it. But I figured one cylinder.... How bad can it be???

It is hard to work on things when EVERYTHING could be bad. They said they did a 'free' PDI inspection but there is no possible way they did much of anything. The START and KILL switch were both oxidized. They may have tapped into a wire somewhere and tested the basic lights. Probably at the starter relay. They could have also spun the starter motor and checked for compression from the same location.

I really do not want to pull the plug again in case it IS cross threaded. I do have several spark plug testing devices including another plug and other devices. I will give the rest of them a try tomorrow. The 'vacuum cutoff valve' is actually a vacuum powered fuel pump on this scooter. This scooter has a 2 gallon tank below the level of the carb. I used a vacuum tester to 'prime' the fuel system before I even tried to start it. It is a lot easier to use than sucking repeatedly on the vacuum line. I may try a small shot of starting fluid on it tomorrow also.

[scooterbob]

Just grab the spark plug connector real tight and turn the engine over. If your getting spark you'll know it. Trust me. You'll be energized and can keep on working. Good luck.

[FrankenMech]

That is one method... LOL

-Been there done that tooooo many times.

I did not get a chance to work on it yesterday.

[Alleyoop]

Knowing it was made in 2012 one thing is the carb is probably varnished up and the tiny holes and passages feeding fuel are clogged. That is a very common problem with scoots laying around for months on end. So the first thing would be to take the carb off and make sure the PILOT jet and its passage to the intake side tinys outlets are clear. The tiny holes by the butterfly are a very common place that are clogged.
You do not need to take the plug out to squirt fuel in the chamber Just take the Vacuum line that is going to the FUEL PUMP(since the tank is below the carb) and pour a teaspoon of gas in the hose holding it up so it runs directly into the intake reconnect and try to start it. If the Spark plug is firing it will fire at least once and may start then die. But that will tell you one very important thing, that the fuel is not being sucked out into the intake and the carb needs a cleaning. Also they set the carbs very LEAN and your best bet is to Close the FUEL RATIO MIXTURE screw and then turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE at least 2 1/2 turns. That is enough for any motor to start and stay running IF it is sucking gas out into the intake.
Alleyoop

[FrankenMech]

Thanks, I was hoping to avoid those carb entanglements...

The manufacture date is August 2012 so it has been a long time since it was running.

I looked at some carb diagrams and noticed it seemed to be a variable venturi carb. Is that common on motorcycles and scooters?

I stopped being clever many years ago due to a stoke and subsequent strokes haven't helped. One quarter of my brain has gone walkabout. I can use all the advice I can get.

[scooterbob]

No problem I only use 1/4 I always save some for later. I'm very old.

[FrankenMech]

Thanks for the encouragement. I am only 60 but the health issues are disturbing my serenity...

PM sent.

[FrankenMech]

Alleyoop-

I pulled the carb and sprayed cleaner through the fuel inlet, drain, primary circuit, choke, and power circuit. I got some grey-white residue out. Possibly corrosion products. Is it OK to reuse the bowl gasket if I pull the bowl?

The mixture screw was out 1-7/8 turns, -very lean.

[FrankenMech]

Minus an answer on the bowl gasket I elected to just spray-soak-wait two more times with carb cleaner. Now it just remains to re-install and try to fire it up. I am thinking about just setting the mixture screw at 2-1/4 turns for a starting point. Supposedly it did run with 1-7/8 turns and I see recommendations for 2-1/2 to 3 turns all over as a start point.

I did find a tiny O-ring on my carb spray straw. It came out of the primary mixture screw passage. I ASSUME it is there in place of a small spring shown on many carb diagrams. I figure it is there to prevent leaks as well as hold the mixture screw adjustment. I hope Murphy will smile on me and there was only one...

I freed the Auto-choke wiring so that I could just disconnect the harness connector.

UPDATE: When I retrieved the mixture screw from the shop It had a spring on it also. It went back in with the spring and the O-ring.