chinese engineering By jct842 (Read 2,353 times)

[jct842]

I wonder how long it will take to catch up on the little things and perks for the chinese. I am remembering how much time, sweat and trouble it was to change the spark plug on my carino 150 last year. this afternoon I changed the plug to an iridium on my majesty. it was a 2 min affair even for a half cripple like me. open seat, 3 screws on the door over the motor and pull the plug. seems to me it took way over an hour last year on the chinese one, in fact bet it was closer to 2 hours. over there when they have a 5 cent an hour mechanic changing parts it just isn't that big a deal!
all it would take is a little money to the engineering people to figure out how to part the plastic in the right spot. course most of the engineering has already been done by some one else and all they are doing is fitting parts togethers to make it run. john

[dannicus]

I was surprised at how easy the maintenece on my new Znen is. Spark plug: 3 screws, 3 nuts and ur there.
Valve job took less than 45 min first time in!

<Edit> I should say that there's no reason in the world that I should have had to do a valve adjustment on a brand new scoot, tho.

[Bashan]

I totally agree with you guys. Would it cost that much more to put a few access doors on these things? When I was having some trouble with my Motorino I wanted to set the valves first and see what happened. I stared at that thing for a 1/2 hour thinking I must be missing something on how to get into the engine compartment. Nope, no way in except dismantle the body plastic. Even the sparkplug is a nightmare to get to. The Motorino is definately a step up from my Bashan though, at least the plastic doesn't disintegrate when you do have to go in (nurse, more anesthesia!). Also it has a Znen engine and the valves were a dream to adjust once I got in there. The adjustment screws are nice and tightly threaded so you get the gap you want and cinch the 9 mm. The Bashans have sloppy stems and you have to try three or four times before you hit the right clearance. So Znen quality engines, decent plastic, and put in some access doors and we have scooter Houstan! I do have an access door on the Motorino that I think is hysterical, I took a couple pics for your amusement. The first is a shot of the left side, I think this is supposed to be for servicing the air filter:

This is a closer view with my hand next to it:

Now I ask you, is this really made for a human hand? Either this was designed by those aliens with the big eyes and long fingers, or the Sinos need some growth hormone. Ah Chinese scoots, ya' gotta' love 'em! Rich

[madcollie]

He he he, Rich you hit on one advantage my Pizzer has over your scoots. I have 1 body panel, if you could call it that, with 3 screws. Fortunately I can get at the motor with a sledge hammer with ease. Other than that, I think I should have gone scooter first, whizzer second.

M/C

[dannicus]

@ Bashan: LOL, what were they thinking with that panel! (BTW, Beautiful bike!)

I have to note that whatever fusses we have with getting to maintenance items on our scoots, are nothing compared to what you have to go thru with a modern sportbike. Valve adjustment? Try removing the seat, 2 to 3 body panels, the gas tank, spark plug wires, and the airbox with all of it's sensor connections and hoses. All that requires two different size allen drivers, a #2 phillips, a 10mm socket, a 12mm socket, a pair of hemostats to stop the fuel line, and the removal of counless pop-fasteners. Then once you measure your clearances on all 24 valves, you usually have to pull the camshafts to put in shims to correct the lash because they actuate the valves directly.

Just about any scoot is a breath of fresh air compared to that!

[prvrbs35]

On my Milan it took about a hour to change the brake light. I have to remove the rear body plastic just to get to the bulb. Due to vibration these bulbs tend to burn out easily. I have not figured a easy way to remedy the access issue. I had put in a LED brake light only to have it fall apart (vibration).
At first, valve adjustment was difficult but since I have done it enough and most of the plastic interlocking pieces are broken it has been easier to disassemble. Nothing compared to dannicus description above! If I ever buy another scooter, I will be looking at ease of servicing on the next one.

[kz1000st]

I hear all that. I still haven't figured a way to cut down on the time it takes to reach my valves either. It's a good 40 minutes in, time to check the valves, and just as long to put it back together. Somehow the whole job ends up being about three or four hours on a good day.

[Cruiser]

It looks like the Chinese have a hard time figuring out the retro style scoots for ease of maintenance. I have the generic 50cc (Peace VIP) scoot and the Honda Reflex clone with the CfMoto clone engine (YY250T). The 250cc is easier to perform maintenance on than the 50cc. The generic VIP style is much easier to work on than the retro style scoots.

In my opinion, the YY250T with the 244cc engine is the easiest of all the China scoots to maintain. All basic engine maintenance requirements including valve adjustment can be met by removing the two access panels in the bottom of the seat bucket. Fuses are located in a block next to the battery which is also accessible through the underseat access panel. It takes only minutes to adjust the valves (no gap gages needed). The taillights and directionals can be reached through another access door in the back of the seat bucket (no tools required here). Removing only 2 bolts in the center of the CVT cover allows access to the variator and clutch.

However, changing headlight bulbs is involved and requires removing the front plastic. That's one of the reasons I went to HID's. ;D

[Bashan]

Oct 7, 2010 13:21:35 GMT -6 Cruiser said:

In my opinion, the YY250T with the 244cc engine is the easiest of all the China scoots to maintain. It takes only minutes to adjust the valves (no gap gages needed).

I hear you can adjust the valves on your scoot while its running. If that's true I gotsta get one of them! Dannicus' comment about the sportbike reminded me of something I've always wondered, my Vulcan 1500 has hydraulic lifters. They are eerily quiet and need absolutely no maintenance. I know with a sport bike you can't use them because they can't handle the revs, but couldn't you use them on a scooter engine? The rev limiter on my MC is around 6500 RPM, its not a stretch to think 8000 is feasible with a little engine and hydraulics or am I missing something? Rich

[Cruiser]

Here's a video, Rich:

www.buggypartsnw.com/bpnw-info-center-introduction/13-how-to-adjust-the-valves-on-250cc-motors

Usually can be done through an access door at the bottom of the seat bucket if your hands aren't too big.

[bige]

here is a link to a 250 service manual

www.mpsracing.net/helix-manual/

[Cruiser]

Yep, sure is a lot of merit in what Dr. JR said. The Chinese R&D expenditure is most likely close to zero which is in part reflected in the low scoot prices. When, and if, R&D kicks in to try and improve the ergonomics and ease of maintenance and reliability, then the price will certainly go up. As long as we know what we are buying (after researching this forum) then we will get the max fun and use out of our scoots. ;D

[kz1000st]

I think it's a case of what they're copying. See this;




This isn't like any other Japanese bike today. Engine hanging in the air, Screw off valve covers, no leg shields to remove like a Honda Cub, SYM Symba or Flyscooter Scout. Spark plug is right there. Covered chain with an access hole to check tension. I heard Aaron say that he had to take his cover off because of noise, not these.

They should build scooters as easy to maintain as these. Plus nothing has rattled off, the horn is loud and it rides better than my scooter.

[dannicus]

Oct 9, 2010 6:41:19 GMT -6 kz1000st said:

I think it's a case of what they're copying. See this;




This isn't like any other Japanese bike today.

Thought you'd notice that, it's a close cousin to a honda that's been making for, I dunno, 40 sum years.



I thought it strange that the Chinese chose to copy the CT "trailie" frame and fit it with street tires rather than use honda's CD road bike frame with the gas tank up in front of the seat.

[kz1000st]

In the United States the 1980, CT110 lacked the dual range sub-transmission, however, it returned in following years, and it was imported from 1980 to 1986. It is still in production and sold in other countries around the world, most notably Australia and New Zealand.
The CT110 is called a "Postie Bike" in Australia and New Zealand due to their use by Australia Post and New Zealand Post as a delivery bike, without the dual range subtransmission. In Australia this also makes them the highest selling motorcycle in the country. A slightly modified version, the CT110 AG, is sold for agricultural use. The CT110AG has recently become road-registerable in Australia (2009), but however has been road registerable in New Zealand for some time.

I forgot about the CT 110. I'd love to see a low price 110cc copy.