Rollers vs. Sliders By Bashan (Read 16,009 times)

[Bashan]

I got this from Steven at MonsterGY6 about two months ago:

It had this description: This power pack is equipped with everything you need to tune your CVT (transmission) to optimize performance for your type of riding. You can mix and match the three different roller weights in the kit.
50cc Kit: 3x 4grm, 3x 6grm, & 3x 8grm weights.
150cc Kit: 3x 11grm, 3x 13grm & 3x 15grm weights.
Kit includes:

Performance Clutch
Performance Variator
Main Spring 1500rpm
9x Roller Weights

The idea is to mix and match the 11G, 13G, and 15G to get the desired weight. I'm running 13G right now and it seems to give me great top end and lotsa pull. I'll try another weight soon but its good for now.

I don't know why Steven at MonsterGY6 uses rollers instead of sliders; everyone seems to prefer sliders. However, I can gaurantee he knows what he's doing and has a reason. I'll keep you posted, Rich.

[monstergy6]

Hey Guys, here is my two cents worth on rollers vs sliders. It is just a personal thing, I used to race buggies with the GY6 150 motor round an oval track etc.

I always found I got better response from the rollers, especially when you fine tune them by mixing the weights up. By response I mean I found that the variator responded by opening and closing quicker with a good quality set of rollers and variator.

I am no engineer, but my gut also tells me something round will move more freely than something with a flatter surface. This is just my personal experience, I also tried sliders vs rollers in my custom scooter that I built, and again I preferred the rollers.

This makes for an interesting debate, but another way to look at it, is does the difference in price possibly warrant the difference in performance (??) some may differ with me.

By the way I have had my scooter up to 74mph and it still had more to go, with 12grm rollers.

[bige]

Oct 12, 2010 6:55:53 GMT -6 monstergy6 said:

Hey Guys, here is my two cents worth on rollers vs sliders. It is just a personal thing, I used to race buggies with the GY6 150 motor round an oval track etc.

I always found I got better response from the rollers, especially when you fine tune them by mixing the weights up. By response I mean I found that the variator responded by opening and closing quicker with a good quality set of rollers and variator.

I am no engineer, but my gut also tells me something round will move more freely than something with a flatter surface. This is just my personal experience, I also tried sliders vs rollers in my custom scooter that I built, and again I preferred the rollers.

This makes for an interesting debate, but another way to look at it, is does the difference in price possibly warrant the difference in performance (??) some may differ with me.

By the way I have had my scooter up to 74mph and it still had more to go, with 12grm rollers.

so that was one of your secrets, just remeber who out ran you on the street that day and could finally keep up with you on the oval

[sprocket]

I prefer rollers, but you need to change them and keep them round... otherwise they become sliders ;-}

[Bashan]

Why do you prefer rollers Sprocket? That's all I've used so far so I don't have anything to compare them to in regards to sliders. Rich

[fairweasel2323]

would also like to know for my 250 if rollers or sliders which be the best route to go with?

[sprocket]

I have tried both and I find rollers are faster...I notice a lag in the sliders

[Doug in San Diego]

I agree, I like rollers

Sliders seemed like they lag behind the throttle. When I gave it gas it would rev up, then I could feel the sliders go up.

Then when I let off the gas< it would be a second before I felt them go down.

Could be ramp design, who knows.

[Cruiser]

Roller weights don't really roll or they wouldn't flat spot. Once they flat spot, then they start losing performance. Rollers seem to work best if they can really roll so some lubrication is required to minimize flat spotting. Too much lube will make a mess in the variator and possibly get on the belt. Too little lube will result in flat spotting and you will lose the smooth operation of the variator.

Sliders are made of a material that doesn't require lubrication and will give a wider operating range over the same weight roller weight. I have had very good response (fast and smooth) with my 19 gram sliders. I also sprayed the weights and the inside of the variator with a dry lubricant (Jigaloo) which may help with the smoothness and response.

[bige]

I dont know if this has been discussed but here are some links, this talks about a mini quad with a cvt and works the same for the scooters

Of the many modifications that are routinely performed, clutch tuning is probably the most misunderstood. It's thought by many to be a matter of hit and miss, or more supremely a black art of sorts. This article will attempt to dispel some of these misunderstandings and offer some insight into the how's and why's of mini quad clutch adjustment. The principles described here apply to all of the Asian mini-quads as well as some of the Japanese minis as well such as the LT80.
Before jumping into how to do it, it's necessary to understand what the clutch does and why it was designed that way to begin with. The automatic CVT, or continuously variable transmission, is a cousin of your typical multi-speed, constant-mesh, gear-driven manual gearbox. Whereas the manual trans requires proper selection of the gear ratio to maintain power, the automatic trans does the thinking for the rider.

Of course, for novice riders the auto trans is a huge advantage in simplifying the riding experience. No worrying about stalling the engine, or keeping it in the right gear- it's all done magically by the CVT. However, unlike the CVT's other cousin, the automotive style automatic transmission, the CVT is designed very cleverly to continuously vary the transmission gear ratio to do one thing only- hold the engine speed constant.

This concept is key, and the crux to the whole tuning exercise. If you were to examine the power curve of a typical 2-cycle engine it would rise, and then fall very quickly near its power peak- hence the notorious reputation of the 2-stroke as a "pipey" variety compared to the more docile and predictable 4-stroke.

The question becomes- if you were limited to operating your engine at only one rpm, what would it be? The rpm at which peak power occurs, of course, and therein lies the beauty of the CVT transmission- it's ability to hold the engine there. The job of the clutch tuner is to identify that point and dial it in.

When modifying your engine you've more than likely shifted that peak power rpm. The original equipment manufacturer (OEM) has probably optimized his gearing to coincide with the stock machine’s peak power rpm. Without readjusting the clutching to realign the controlled rpm with the new power peak, full advantage of the engine mod may not be realized. In the example above, the stock clutch would be adjusted to hold the engine at 8000 rpm from the factory.

If the clutch wasn't readjusted to run at 9500 rpm, only a 50% improvement would be gained since there's only another 1.7 hp available at 8000 rpm. Not too shabby, but if the clutch was properly adjusted then max power available to the quad would be nearly 100% higher, or double!

Not to worry, most performance shops will sell you their products with either recommendations for a particular clutch setup, or provide the clutch hardware as part of their kit. They've no doubt ran their own hardware and through their own extensive testing have determined that a certain set of rollers and spring result in the best performance.

Realize though, that there are subtle (and not so subtle) differences between machines, and the recommended

atv.off-road.com/atv/tech/cvt-clutch-tuning-basics-part-2-understanding-the-fundamentals-18813.html

atv.off-road.com/atv/tech/cvt-clutch-tuning-basics-part-3-making-the-adjustments-18814.html

I have run both and seems like the rollers react quicker than the sliders, the sliders I feel more acceleration and a little more top speed

[netmare]

The OEM rollers from my 150cc were in pretty good shape, and 13 grams. I replaced them with 13 gram sliders and noticed an immediate improvement in take off (smoothness) and acceleration. Just my .02¢. I also replaced the entire variator assembely, so there are probably several contibuting factors.

cg

[netmare]

One other thing, when I went from 13 gram rollers to 13 gram slider my RPMs dropped by about 1000. No joke, I have been watching them. Now instead of 5000-6000 accelerating to 30+ I am at 4000-5000.

cg

[speedracer]

My two cents. I went to sliders from rollers on my 150cc and I could feel a better take off and I think a better top end. Now I have a 250 54B and ordered sliders for it. When I removed the cover on the variator I couldn't even see the rollers. There was so much grease in there the rollers could never roll slide or do anything. Now without all that crap in there my 250 runs way better then it did before. I watch my tach more as I can tell when I hit 4200 rpms I am doing between 45-50 and getting a nice smooth ride.