Is This a Bad Enricher? By grocerygetter (Read 2,337 times)

[grocerygetter]

2007 JCL 250b

First few days when new it started right up cold, idled high, came down slow.

Gradually it would not start cold anymore, hot is fine.

When I do get it started after about 5mins of trying, there is no high idle anymore. Not sure though if that could be because of it being heated up while trying to start for so long.

I figured enricher for sure anyway.
Had one delivered, pin is in the exact same position as mine - extended I believe.

When cold, should I be able to push the pin in against the spring, or should it be retracted fully when cold?

I pulled it out of the carb today and it started right up.
New one and my old original do not make a difference.
When I pull it out hot, it's in the same position it was in when cold, so logic tells me it doesn't do anything, brand new.

Old one is on the right, new one on the left

Attachments:

[Alleyoop]

They BOTH look RETRACTED and should be feeding extra fuel for cold starting, Then in about 3-4 minutes it should be EXTENDED about 1/4 of an inch or so Extended it should look something like this.

After 3-4 minutes if you touch it it should be a little hot, meaning it is getting Voltage. If it is COLD then no voltage is getting to the Enricher.

YOU CAN TEST THEM OUT. USE THE SPARE ONE and GET TWO PIECES OF WIRE AND HOOK IT UP TO THE BATTERY and the ENRICHER PLUG and you SHOULD SEE it EXTEND.


Also The plungers look longer than mine, HOW MUCH can you push them against the spring inside?
Alleyoop


Get you multimeter out and test where it plugs into. THE SCOOT has to be running and see if there is Voltage Feeding the Enricher.

[grocerygetter]

I let it run until the fan came on, pulled it out and it was clearly extended. I guess I was checking it too soon before and didn't see it extended.

I can push them in about 1/4" when cold and retracted.

I'll have to wait till tonight for it to cool down now and see how it starts.
I adjusted the air fuel ending up about 1/4 turn out farther than it was.
It was out about 2 full turns originally.

But what ever changed after the first few days maybe more of the issue.
My idle is up and down, not smooth no matter where I adjust the air fuel screw.
Seems to run ok down the road though.
I'll see what happens tonight and tomorrow for cold starting and idling.

Thanks for your help

[Alleyoop]

Great!! So now you know your Enricher is working at least it is RETRACTED and it Does EXTEND. But that does not mean It is feeding Fuel when cold The Holes that make the Enricher Feed Fuel could be clogged. And here is how to Clear them out if they are Clogged.

Get a SPRAY CAN OF CARB CLEANER they come with a long thin straw that you can stick into the holes and spray. Whatever hole you spray the spray should come out whereever the holes is being feed from or outlet.

But if the IDLE is UP AND DOWN it is LEAN, so you either Have an AIR LEAK or your runing LEAN. But with 2 1/2 turns out on the Fuel Ratio Screw and the Idle still Bounces around it is one or the other. You have and Air Leak or your PILOT JET and OR PASSAGE is clogged.
Here is how to Clean out the ENRICHER PASSAGES:
Alleyoop


And the PILOT JET PASSAGE:
You need to take the PILOT JET OUT and SPRAY INTO the Hole without the jet in. If still no spray comes out get a small needle and poke the tiny holes to clear them out and spray until spray does come out. You can also see where the FUEL FROM THE ENRICHER should come out as well.

[sunlproblems]

i would check the valves to see if they need to be ajusted

[grocerygetter]

Sept 18, 2011 2:31:43 GMT -6 sunlproblems said:

i would check the valves to see if they need to be ajusted

Did it. Thought the same thing.

[ce]

Optimum idle speed is 2000 rpms, not 1800 as published.

Also the gas cap usually needs to have a vent hole drilled in it as the fuel vapor rcovery system is problematic, There's a vent in the gas tank neck, it goes to a charcoal cannister at the rear .
Make sure the header bolts are tight, and shorten the vac line to th fuel pump if necessary.

Check the connections to the coil and spark plug wire.

Upjet the carb to a 38 pilot and 120 main. You prolly have a 35 115.

It does sound like an air leak, as Alley noted, and 5 year old Chinese vac lines are suspect. Plus, 2007 was a very bad year for rubber, so change your valve stems in the wheels at your earliest convenience.

[grocerygetter]

Thanks for the ideas.
I probably won't get to it tonight, still have to get those a/c's out of the windows and find my tool room and garage.

Hard to want to get back at this when my Sunny Helix did a 100 mile first jaunt without an issue yesterday.

I'll post my findings as I get back into it.

[grocerygetter]

Sept 18, 2011 20:17:07 GMT -6 ce said:

Optimum idle speed is 2000 rpms, not 1800 as published.

Also the gas cap usually needs to have a vent hole drilled in it as the fuel vapor rcovery system is problematic, There's a vent in the gas tank neck, it goes to a charcoal cannister at the rear .
Make sure the header bolts are tight, and shorten the vac line to th fuel pump if necessary.

Check the connections to the coil and spark plug wire.

Upjet the carb to a 38 pilot and 120 main. You prolly have a 35 115.

It does sound like an air leak, as Alley noted, and 5 year old Chinese vac lines are suspect. Plus, 2007 was a very bad year for rubber, so change your valve stems in the wheels at your earliest convenience.

1. 2000 RPM is definitely better than even just slightly less, say 1800. However the wheel wants to try and turn barely-sort-of-almost at 2000 - but I like the smoothness so there it will stay

2. Not sure if the tank vent is an issue, haven't hooked up my vac gauge to verify anything in that circuit, but I don't have 100 miles and I disassembled everything and all connections are on and tight - I'm ruling that out for now

3. Header bolts - I do have a problem there, and like a butthead haven't gotten around to doing the right thing.
From new there was no gasket/ring there.
Didn't realize the thing shouldn't sound like an old lawn mower being my first scoot.
But after the first few days it became apparent there was an issue there as the tinny rattle of the exhaust pipe was obvious, soot coming out from around the flange.
Made a flange gasket out of muffler tape and RTV'd the damn donut at the flange - Sunday afternoon backyard fix I know, but it seemed to work.
However I think it isn't sealing when cold, quiets up when warm, then starts to make noise again when hot.
I know, I need to clean that crap out and put a proper gasket in there - is it just the steel ring? Does anything go on the flange to make a seal?

4. All vac lines are as short as possible and nicely routed during PDI

5. Coil to plug is good and also tied up - all elec connections are coated in Dielectric grease

6. upjetting sounds like a nice future mod - need to get it running right stock first

7. Valve stems - does anybody use bolt-on stems or just new rubber pull thru's?

[grocerygetter]

Sept 17, 2011 14:15:26 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Great!! So now you know your Enricher is working at least it is RETRACTED and it Does EXTEND. But that does not mean It is feeding Fuel when cold The Holes that make the Enricher Feed Fuel could be clogged. And here is how to Clear them out if they are Clogged.

Get a SPRAY CAN OF CARB CLEANER they come with a long thin straw that you can stick into the holes and spray. Whatever hole you spray the spray should come out whereever the holes is being feed from or outlet.

But if the IDLE is UP AND DOWN it is LEAN, so you either Have an AIR LEAK or your runing LEAN. But with 2 1/2 turns out on the Fuel Ratio Screw and the Idle still Bounces around it is one or the other. You have and Air Leak or your PILOT JET and OR PASSAGE is clogged.

And the PILOT JET PASSAGE:
You need to take the PILOT JET OUT and SPRAY INTO the Hole without the jet in. If still no spray comes out get a small needle and poke the tiny holes to clear them out and spray until spray does come out. You can also see where the FUEL FROM THE ENRICHER should come out as well.

Well I cheated and took the easy route first.
Took everything possible off the top of the carb without removing the whole thing.
Sprayed in all passages, watched for the fluid to go down/leak out.
Not so quick in some of the passages first time but seemed to flow out quicker the more I sprayed.

Reassembled and it kicked sooner than it had been when cold.
Took less than a minute to get it running.

Played with the idle to get it to be around 2100 since it was technically cold.
Still hunting for idle though.

Forgot to mention I put 1/2 cup of Seafoam into the tank also.

Let it run until the fan came on.
Was able to mess with the idle mixture screw from the top with me finger reaching around the bottom - if it moves that easy then I might want to put a dab of silicone on it to keep it from vibrating out of position.
Idle mixture is about as good as its going to get - turn one way idle goes down, turn the other way idle goes down.

I shut it down for a few minutes.
Started no problem as it had been when warm.
But idle had calmed down a bit, not hunting as much.

I'll get back at it tomorrow.
Hopefully one of the bike shops has an exhaust gasket that fits--
-- Do I go to a Yamaha place since it's a 250B?
-- Is it just the steel ring that goes between the header and the head port? - I don't know exactly what belongs there since mine got missed during smoke break at the assembly plant

thanks for the help

[ce]

The header gasket is like an asbestos ring with a metal backing about a quarter inch thick.

You can get 'em on ebay, but if you just tell the Yamaha shop it's for a Majesty 250, they might have one. It fits up inside the head, and is hard to see when it's in there.
You have to loosen the whole exhaust system and slowly tighten it all together so you don't bind any pipe in the wrong position.

[pudntane]

I used pull through tire valves. Works fine. I had similar issues with starting and idle, etc. It wasn't until I replaced the carburetor and all of the rubber hoses and lines that it began to run right. Also, the gasoline smell went away when I pulled it into the garage.

Ernie