TRY TRY Again.. Still at a loss By justguy1 (Read 9,172 times)

[justguy1]

image didn't come Thru Alley..

Now if the bulb is blown.. How comes it comes on when I turn the key off??? Man this is real confusing. seems more I test the more confused I get..

to think this was all working...

[Alleyoop]

HAHAHA, OH it does come on with key off WOW!! I know you must of re-wired it that is it isn't it and your not telling us and this is a test
Alleyoop

P.S JUST KIDDING BUD. Well I am lost on this one bud, but maybe JR will figure it out, I hope so for your sake. Man 2 months without riding. I will bet you will not add anything once you get it fixed ;D
I know I wouldn't ;D

[Bashan]

Those two wires are hot all of the time so your reading was normal. The others light up with the key on.

The grounds for the relays are the green wires. They run back into the wire harness so I'm not exactly sure where they ground to frame but it's probably the frame ground where you connected your battery switch.

You can use your multi as a continuity checker. Set The ohms to 200. Then you can use your probes to test the continuity of the wires. The multi will pass a small current between the probes. If the wire is good you'll get zero ohms or close to it. If the wire is broken the multi will read OL meaning no juice got through and the wire is bad. It's best to turn off the power by using your cutoff switch while doing the tests.

I would like you to test the ignition switch by unhooking the pigtail and checking the continuity between the red wire and the other wires in the key on and key off positions. For example put one probe on the red wire and one on the black wire with the key on and key off. Also check the continuity between the b/w kill wire and the ground. You can also check grounds back to the frame for continuity.

[justguy1]

Bashan,

Your saying to unhook the pigtail .. does that mean UNPLUG the ignition switch?? Then just turn the key on and use the top part to check for continuity?

[Alleyoop]

Justguy,
I would check the wires around were you were working , from the battery to the Cutoff switch and see if you spot any wires loose or hanging. It could of happened that moving the neg cable off the battery and then running the other cable back to the battery a wire got pulled and is disconnected from ground. It may be as simply as that.

And the thing that points to a possible ground wire being the problem is, because when you push the START BUTTON everything goes off.

NOW when you push the START BUTTON all it does is it GROUNDS THE SOLENOID that is all. Now I am hearing the start button on the fashion works the opposite not like on the 50s and 150s and most other scoots that it actually sends juice to the brake switchs so they can activate the solenoid to spin the starter.

But Check the wires around where you were working.
My thoughts
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

Bashan, do you go by the fashion wiring or the helix wiring diagram. Seems the helix is similar to the fashion. One has the fuses the other don't. Trying to learn all these wires but I want to make sure what I'm looking at or told is correct.

[Bashan]

When the CF Moto people went about cloning the Helix they dumbed down the wiring scheme. So, I use the Fashion diagrams as much as possible because they're usually correct. When they don't give me the info I need I look on the Helix diagrams. If you do that just remember it's a guide and will not be exact.

I PM'd back and forth some with justguy1 and he said he'd like a little more explanation on doing the wire testing. First of all if your multimeter doesn't have a continuity function, stick a crowbar in that crappy wallet and pull a ten out kicking and screaming. That's about what they cost at Wally World. The continuity symbol looks like this:

On that setting, if you have a good wire or circuit between the probes, a tone will sound and you'll get a very low ohms reading indicating current can pass freely:

If current can't freely pass between the probes you'll get a Over Limit symbol indicating a bad circuit and/or wire:

How to test for continuity without a proper multimeter you cheap bastards!

Set your multi to the 200 ohm range unless you have auto-ranging on your meter, in which case it doesn't matter. Touch the probes on the wire or circuit you want to test. If you get very low ohms the circuit is good:

If the current can't pass freely you'll get an OL:

OK, Justguy1, I still think something hinky is going on with your ignition switch. When you pull the key out bizarre things happen. So let's prove this puppy is OK or not once and for all. Unhook the ignition switch from it's connector:

For these tests we don't need power, we just want to see if the switch makes the connections it is supposed to. The switch simply connects the hot red wire to the blue/black and black wire. First we'll test red to black. If we get good continuity from red to black with the switch in the on position, that is normal and what we want:

That's normal and a good test result. Now turn the key off and we should lose our circuit:

I know some of you seasoned guys have gone back to your porn but I had a few requests to walk through the tests slowly so they wouldn't make a mistake.

Now red to blue/black:

Key on, a tone and low ohms......normal:

Turn the key off...lose the circuit....normal:

Now, we want to see if the kill function works. This test is opposite of what we've done so far because we want a connection with the key off and lose it when the key is on. This is because the kill grounds out the spark in the off position. So....

Key off....we want a connection:

Key on, lose the circuit:

OK Just guy1 those are the tests I want you to do. When you're done I'll give you more stuff to do, like washing my car.

[Bashan]

Hey, I may have you figured out! I think the problem lies in this area of your bike. I put red arrows at the potential problems:

I think when you're hitting the start button, there's a short that's grounding out that G/W that runs to the CDI. That's why everything shuts down, you're grounding out the CDI. There's a short in there somewhere but I'll need to do a little digging with my multi to isolate the exact pathway. I'm going to start in here on the right handlebar controls when I get back from lunch.

Then, I'll give you what wires to test and hopefully we can get you straightened out.

[justguy1]

Ok.. I can see where you are going..

I am going to buy a good multi meter tonight that has the tone and this way makes it easier to follow you.

as far as the wiring. the cf moto one shows that the horn is green/white wire, but the green/white is a 5amp for the fuel/starter/charge on my scooter.. Where on the helix one it shows the correct wires that match to my scooter.. so that is why all these wiring confuses the bejeebies out of me..

I am beginning to think I really don't explain things well...

AS far as the Start button it ONLY shuts down the power when I pull the key out.. Otherwise it starts the scooter with no problem when I push it and step on the brake.

[LUKE]

omg!!rich,, how do you know all these things??? i have same exact yellow tester gadget like yours,but i dunno how to use it...there are three things i don't want to mess with in this world...electricity,gravity and mother in laws !...LOL

hope you get that puppy fixed soon justgay1...goodluck! with alley and rich...you can't go wrong!

[Alleyoop]

HAHAHA, Well I am NOT an electrical guy but can do some basic stuff and test for juice or no juice. So I will let RICH figure this out I am also a student on this one.
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

Rich, Alley.. I will be away for the holiday weekend, I will back on Monday and all next week and next weekend I will be tackling this scooter... IF I have to take the plastics off then so be it, I will get to that on Friday of next week when im off.. Till then..
Thanks again for all the help.. It may not seem like it I do, but I do appreciate all the help.. With this being an ongoing process its become real frustrating and with some misinformation makes it that much harder and confusing.. And since im NOT an electrian like others or not able to read diagrams, I still consider my self to be pretty smart at somethings and can figure out some things..

for example if my scooter shows that the HORN is 10amps and NOT 5 amps and the green/white wire is 5amps and its for the fuel/charge/start.. and the HELIX diagram says the same thing.. Im content with following that since they match.. Again Im not an electrician so I could be wrong.. Just figured since they match it just may be right..

But when I do get back, I will go thru all the test again.. and then do them again just to be sure and take apart the right handle bar cluster to see how that is...

@alley one thing I did find out when taking apart some stuff.. The NEG wire that is attached to the battery is grounded to the frame. and that grounded wire was put onto the disconnect switch then a new wire connected to the disconnect switch was then ran back to the battery.. I like your idea of the fact that I may have PULLED on that wire that was grounded and it came lose... So that too im going to check..

Gonna be a fun week next week.... IM calling it.. Scooter Dedication week... sounds like a good name...

[Bashan]

Jul 2, 2013 11:40:35 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

Ok.. I can see where you are going..

You can!!?? Then please explain it to me!!

Jul 2, 2013 11:40:35 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

the cf moto one shows that the horn is green/white wire, but the green/white is a 5amp for the fuel/starter/charge on my scooter.. Where on the helix one it shows the correct wires that match to my scooter.. so that is why all these wiring confuses the bejeebies out of me..

The horn wire is W/G on my bike. I'll take a look at the diagrams and try to sort it out. The schematics can be confusing so don't feel like the Lone Ranger on that issue.

Jul 2, 2013 11:40:35 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

AS far as the Start button it ONLY shuts down the power when I pull the key out..

OK, I don't understand this one. So you're in the "off" key position and the start button will shut down the power if the key is out but not if it's in the ignition?

When you get a chance I'd like you to run the tests on the ignition switch that I spelled out in the previous post. I want to make sure that's OK before proceeding.

[justguy1]

Ok. as far as seeing where you are going.. im referring to checking the cluster on the handle bar... I had read on a helix site something about the start button being an issue.

see I have the 2008 fashion.. on my scooter the green/white is a 5amp fuse that shows its for fuel/starter/charge... the horn on mine is a 10amp.. that is with the blinkers, tail lights, etc and is the black/brown wire.

as far as the starter button:

I start the scooter.. no problem with the starter button.. but if I JUST turn the key to on.. (without starting it) and nothing works.. no headlight, no blinkers, no horn, no dash lights.. If I push the start button just to push it.. it lights up the dash lights
ok.. so then I turn the key to OFF and pull it out.. NOW the headlight comes on... if you press the horn the speedodometer goes crazy.. etc.. ONLY way to shut everything off is to either disconnect the battery.. or PUSH the START button.. and it shuts everything down... no more power..

[Bashan]

Jul 3, 2013 9:27:32 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

Ok. as far as seeing where you are going.. im referring to checking the cluster on the handle bar... I had read on a helix site something about the start button being an issue.

You know how the schematics show two wires going to the start button? Oh foolish Earthlings! There's four...... and tomorrow I'm going to find out where those other two come from and where they go. I'm pretty sure that's at least part of the problem.

Jul 3, 2013 9:27:32 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

see I have the 2008 fashion.. on my scooter the green/white is a 5amp fuse that shows its for fuel/starter/charge... the horn on mine is a 10amp.. that is with the blinkers, tail lights, etc and is the black/brown wire.

Yeah, mine's 2009 and I think there's some other differences too.

Jul 3, 2013 9:27:32 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

as far as the starter button:
I start the scooter.. no problem with the starter button.. but if I JUST turn the key to on.. (without starting it) and nothing works.. no headlight, no blinkers, no horn, no dash lights.. If I push the start button just to push it.. it lights up the dash lights
ok.. so then I turn the key to OFF and pull it out.. NOW the headlight comes on... if you press the horn the speedodometer goes crazy.. etc.. ONLY way to shut everything off is to either disconnect the battery.. or PUSH the START button.. and it shuts everything down... no more power..