TRY TRY Again.. Still at a loss By justguy1 (Read 9,192 times)

[justguy1]

she is actually my fiance, (soon to be wife). Her mother passed away suddenly on two weeks ago.. So I have been out of town.

But, im back now and ready to tackle this thing so I can ride it..

[dragonsparks]

Sorry to hear about you & your ladies loss. Kind of has a way of changing your perspective on what's more Important in life.

Welcome back. Hope to see you make some serious progress towards fixing your scoot. maybe now you can look at it with fresh eyes.
Truly Dave

[Bashan]

Well alright, JG1 is back! I got more diagrams and some procedures prepared. I'll try to get them organized in a step by step format and we'll get this puppy running. Some or the tests will seem unrelated but I want to go at this methodically and narrow it down to the system that's causing this bizarre behavior. In health care we call this RI/RO or, rule in rule out. I get people that are disappointed that an X-ray doesn't show a great deal. However, it actually did because it ruled out many pathologies and the diagnosis is narrowed down. That's what I'd like to do with your bike. So just hang with me and run the tests I ask even if they seem a little off the wall and we'll get it fixed. Don't do anything until my next post and you can start with that one.

[Bashan]

OK bud, I remember you said you were having a helluva time getting the plastic off. You're going to have to get it down to the frame for us to work on it. The Helix shop manual has about the best tutorial I've seen for getting the body off. Just be careful and take some pictures so you know how it goes back together. At the very least you've got to get the side plastic off.

Once the sides are exposed I want you to lose the cutoff switch and restore the OEM wiring. We can always put the switch back in after we're done. Follow these steps to restore the wiring:

• Disconnect the red cable from the battery.
  
• Disconnect the black cable from the battery and wherever it connects on the other end. Remove the black cable and set it aside.
  
• Disconnect the engine ground from the front of the of the engine and it's connection on the other end. If it is tethered to the battery ground cable remove it as a unit.
  
• Install battery ground cable (use actual battery cable) from negative battery terminal to scooter's main ground.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• Install engine ground cable from engine to main ground.
  
• Install solenoid cable as one continuous cable with no breaks from negative solenoid terminal to starter.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

[Bashan]

I'm sorry I just dropped off the radar but I had the busiest two days in a row at the clinic and one of the help was gone. I've been trying to take up the slack and it has me running in circles.

My wife said I was being a bossy a-hole for telling JG1 to disconnect his cutoff switch. I told her to shut the hell up and start supper!

In retrospect, maybe I was getting a little too pushy. What I wanted to do is take that switch out of the equation. JG1, I do apologize for ordering you around. Please get the bike back to pre-cutoff switch status for running the tests.

We had talked about this before but I'm not sure if we ever worked through it. I want to get the ignition switch tested and make sure it's not part of the problem. So get the cutoff out of the picture and here are the tests I wanted on the ignition switch reposted:

When the CF Moto people went about cloning the Helix they dumbed down the wiring scheme. So, I use the Fashion diagrams as much as possible because they're usually correct. When they don't give me the info I need I look on the Helix diagrams. If you do that just remember it's a guide and will not be exact.

I PM'd back and forth some with justguy1 and he said he'd like a little more explanation on doing the wire testing. First of all if your multimeter doesn't have a continuity function, stick a crowbar in that crappy wallet and pull a ten out kicking and screaming. That's about what they cost at Wally World. The continuity symbol looks like this:

On that setting, if you have a good wire or circuit between the probes, a tone will sound and you'll get a very low ohms reading indicating current can pass freely:

If current can't freely pass between the probes you'll get a Over Limit symbol indicating a bad circuit and/or wire:

How to test for continuity without a proper multimeter you cheap bastards!

Set your multi to the 200 ohm range unless you have auto-ranging on your meter, in which case it doesn't matter. Touch the probes on the wire or circuit you want to test. If you get very low ohms the circuit is good:

If the current can't pass freely you'll get an OL:

OK, Justguy1, I still think something hinky is going on with your ignition switch. When you pull the key out bizarre things happen. So let's prove this puppy is OK or not once and for all. Unhook the ignition switch from it's connector:

For these tests we don't need power, we just want to see if the switch makes the connections it is supposed to. The switch simply connects the hot red wire to the blue/black and black wire. First we'll test red to black. If we get good continuity from red to black with the switch in the on position, that is normal and what we want:

That's normal and a good test result. Now turn the key off and we should lose our circuit:

I know some of you seasoned guys have gone back to your porn but I had a few requests to walk through the tests slowly so they wouldn't make a mistake.

Now red to blue/black:

Key on, a tone and low ohms......normal:

Turn the key off...lose the circuit....normal:

Now, we want to see if the kill function works. This test is opposite of what we've done so far because we want a connection with the key off and lose it when the key is on. This is because the kill grounds out the spark in the off position. So....

Key off....we want a connection:

Key on, lose the circuit:

[justguy1]

OK let's start with the first post about the cutoff switch.

All those wires are already in tact. They were never touched. I'm a little confused on what you want me to do to restore the wires. The scooter starts. I connected the negative wire back to the battery. Should I remove all those wires you have pictured?

okay Bashan, maybe this is where the confusion is when I set up the cutoff switch all I did was take the black negative wire connected to the cutoff switch and ran a plain piece of wire to the negative terminal and that's how I set up the cutoff switch I never touched any of those other wires so maybe this is what caused the problem.

[Bashan]

I'm sorry man, I was getting too wound up. All I want is the wiring back to the stock state so we can take that factor out.

Just make sure it is configured like this which it sounds like you do:

I do need you to run those tests on the ignition switch. Do these with the switch connector unplugged. Please report the findings as the wires having continuity or are OL.

[justguy1]

OK so let's start with the first test off the bat. As you can see bought new multimeter not 10 bucks just saying. Set the settings on the one with the curved lines disconnected the connector of the key switch and put red on red and black on black with key on at first I got a OL. Got a better connection and the ohms are 147.3. Tried again and again OL. Turned key off and got OL. Tried w/ key on again this time 50.4.

2) tested blue/black all normal

3) tested two middle wires kill switch. Both we key on and off I get an OL.

[Alleyoop]

This volt meter is all you needed:
Alleyoop

www.harborfreight.com/7-function-multimeter-98025.html

[justguy1]

I have that one but it doesn't have a continuity tone, so bought this other one from Walmart. It was the only one they had with a tone.

[Bashan]

OK man, I'm cranked and ready to fix this puppy. I'm caught up at home and work now. I'll look over your test results and post here in an hour or so. But first....MORE COFFEE!!! i

[Bashan]

I'm sorry man, it's been one crazy week to try and get anything done. The other day when I thought I was going to kick arse we had a surprise visitor that completely occupied our time. They were from little Rock Arkansas.......I'm not kidding. But unless JR has taken to dressing in drag I don't think it was him.

OK, here's the deal, continuity tests the circuit to see if it's an open or closed entity. The ohms are not important and just confuse things.

Therefore:

So I'm sorry, I know it seems like I'm beating this to death but I need you to test these wires on the chart with the key on and then the key off. Then report each test and tell me if you got a tone or not with the key off and then key on.

First, unplug the ignition switch pigtail from the bike:

Then:

And then set your fancy new multi to DC voltage:

And plug the ignition switch back into the system then turn on the key:

and test from this chart:

Let me know if you need any help on anything.

[Alleyoop]

Guess he sold it and got a CHEVY ;D
Alleyoop

[justguy1]

haha.. NOPE still here... Was in Miami this weekend visiting family ...

Bashan

Ok.. I have answers for you on the first part with the plug DISCONNECTED...

Red to black with the key off/on.. I get OL no ohms at all

Red to blue/black everything was fine (normal)

the kill switch green and white/black with key off and on I only got an OL reading....


Tonight I will try with it all plugged up and get back to you..

[Bashan]

Aug 14, 2013 13:46:55 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

Bashan Ok.. I have answers for you on the first part with the plug DISCONNECTED...

Red to black with the key off/on.. I get OL no ohms at all

You should have got a continuity tone with the key ON, and the OL with the key off. Based on your info, the switch is bad.

Red to blue/black everything was fine (normal)

Aug 14, 2013 13:46:55 GMT -6 justguy1 said:

the kill switch green and white/black with key off and on I only got an OL reading....

Did you test the kill switch or the ignition switch? You should have got a continuity tone with the ignition switch key OFF, and an OL with it ON.

Tonight I will try with it all plugged up and get back to you..