Rebuilding Fuel System - Starting Over On My 50cc By straightbangin (Read 5,714 times)

[straightbangin]

ya the gas is on, kill switch is in run position. i just changed the spark plug. the first time i tried to start it there was NOTHING, then i tried again and just a click then i tried again and just like 1/8th of a rev,then i tried again and it tried to rev a few times but it sounded slow like a dieing battery. KZ1000ST is thinking it may be a solenoid problem and it very well may be. Im just trying to figure out if A) i was sold a dud battery and B) is it that AND/OR a solenoid issue. waiting for the weather to clear up so I can go outside and check some things. at this point may be tomorrow, its raining like cats and dogs and i dont want to be standing in a puddle testing the solenoid with sparks and all LOL.

just a note: with the " old / almost totally dead and ready to be thrown out battery " fully charged, it would start right up after taking it off the charger , id drive it to work, then 12 hrs later when id go to drive it home it would be the same pattern, id try to start it, then nothing, try again and just a click, try again and i'd it start. so im thinking it really could be a battery AND intermittently working solenoid. Im also going to check the connections on the spark plug as well . i know that battery was totally dead though since the last time i tried to start it right after i took it off the charger it wouldn't go when before it would each time. at least i got every last little bit of juice out of it

[Alleyoop]

Ok to find out if its a weak battery or something with the SOLENOID, go and jump the SOLENOID with the Screwdriver that has the rubber handle. IF its spins your starter really good then its the SOLENOID. If it still just spins it slow or nothing THEN IT IS THE BATTERY or bad connections.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

99.9 percent if you push the start button and you hear CLICKING it usually one of two things WEAK BATTERY or bad SELONOID.
Alleyoop

[Alleyoop]

Since your going to be a waver I would also get a good battery charger, one that can jump as well as charge a pretty dead battery.
This is what I have, it will jump and starts cars, started my trike because my over 41/2 year battery finally went south and charges almost dead battery and you can trickle charge at 2amps as well.
Alleyoop
www.sears.com/diehard-10-2-50-amp-automatic-battery-charger/p-02871222000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

[straightbangin]

oh nice. that price is not too bad either. thanks for the advice. ill do the solenoid trick once its dry out. hopefully by tomorrow. well let you know how it goes. thanks!

[Alleyoop]

No the price is good and the charger is great you can do anything you want even if the battery is dead it will start whatever. Good luck will keep an eye out to see which is the culprit battery, Solenoid or bad connection.
Alleyoop

[straightbangin]

I'm going to get up at 2am and charge it for 3 hrs ( that should do it ) then try to start it to leave for the gym at 5am, if it doesn't work ill bike to the gym and when I get home test the solenoid / connections next. Tis the game plan thanks again for your help

[straightbangin]

I got up at 4:30am to plug the scooter into the charger and went back to sleep. I got up at 6:30am and the light showed fully charged so I know it took less than 2 hrs to fully charge so I know the battery is holding some sort of charge so it must not be a total dud if at all. I tried to start it and nothing, tried again and just a click, tried again and just a click, tried again and tried to turn over but didn't. Hearing these clicks I could tell it was coming right from the area where the solenoid area is. I didn't want to wear down the battery so I didn't try again and took my bike to the gym.

I squeezed the brakes to see if they lit up bright as suggested before and they lit up but not super bright. Nothing about this scooter is bright though so it didn't surprise me or lead me to believe it was a battery issue at this point.

I checked all the wires and connections and all seemed good except this one thin red wire that runs parallel to the thick red solenoid to battery wire. (The one that has the fuze attached to it) It seemed like the copper wire strands under the wire coating didn't really stick out like the other wires did but it didn't go to the solenoid, it went to this other cluster of wires that were all wrapped up so not sure if this would be an issue.

Made a video of that here:



I did the jump trick with the battery expecting a 4th of july amount of sparks and was releived that it wasn't that bag and the scooter started right up when I did this and idled sounding very healthy.

So ...

1) time to order a new solenoid I guess? (lucily it didnt look too hard to replace )

2) what about the thin red wire going to the battery holding the fuse that may or may not be clamped in well. If its not, what problems would I have? im hoping its not that since I dont have a wire stripper to fix it nor to i want to deal with where that wire leads to LOL.

3) Very stupid question... if im replacing the solenoid, I'm guessing I should totally disconnected the battery and have the keys out of the scooter and it totally off first right? I'm always afraid of getting a shock. Every since I stuck the metal hair pin in the outlet when I was 2 after being told not too, im afraid of electrical shocks

[jct842]

I don't think it is possible to get a shock off 12 volts thru your fingers, ......possibly if you put your tongue between + and - !

120 volts usually hurts big time though.

[Alleyoop]

Great, since you jumped the Solenoid and it spun your starter good then your battery is fine.

Now concerning that red wire that has the FUSE on. Before you go and buy a SOLENOID fix that wire good, that is maybe WHY your lights are not to bright as well as why the SOLENOID is CLICKING due to not enough voltage.
That wire with the fuse goes to your IGNITION KEY and feeds the juice to everything from that WIRE. So that wire is very important and it MAY just be why your SOLENOID is clicking and the lights are not so bright due to the poor connector it has a lot of resistance and it will loose some of the 12v from the battery.
Alleyoop

[tvnacman]

Yes Shannon , disconnect the red positive battery cable when replacing the solenoid .
In regards to the hair pin in the outlet , I stuck a butter knife in the outlet only once . I have you beat on this one I was told not to play with knifes and electrical outlets .

You said your not a mechanic , I don't agree I see the work your doing and its out come . The forward thinking about safety before doing . For sure your doing GREAT!!!!
I have been watching this post Alley has you well covered !!!!
Noticing a poor crimp connection is a sharp eye , I would replace the fuse holder for a blade type fuse . Then you can crimp your own connector to connect to the battery . If you would like I would be happy to make a short video on how to make a factory looking crimp . If you Skype I could show that way as well .


Do you have a voltmeter ?

John

[straightbangin]

thanks guys. thanks tvnacman. that's very nice of you. once i know how to fix a scooter like the back of my hand I will already be learning how to fix the wave runner I plan on getting this summer

i don't have a wire stripper. I wonder if I can do it ghetto style by cutting the plastic coating around it with a tiny pair of fine nail scissors no voltmeter. i already ordered the solenoid. it was only $10 so if i don't need it i can always toss it in my box of spare scooter parts and yes you do have me beat with the butter knife

[Alleyoop]

Yes, by all means use anything to cut the wire you do not need a wire stripper, razor blades work great they are very sharp.
Alleyoop

[straightbangin]

YAY!!! Thanks!
and yes Alley always has me well covered and it is beyond appreciated. I trust his advice over all others.. ( no offence to all others )

[straightbangin]

Okay, 9 days later I finally hit a day where its not raining or about to. I didn't exactly want to mess with electrical work standing in wetness.

First let me saying uncrimping the " circle thing " that screws into the positive battery terminal and attaches to the small wire with the fuse in it was a major pain in the butt. If I never need to do this again I'm just buying a replacement one. It was especially a pain since it was smaller than the thicker red wire's circle/crimpy thing that goes go to the positive battery terminal. I used the smallest screw driver and largest sewing needle I had to get the job done. Using a razor blade to restrip the wire was very simple, thanks! One of the smaller crimppy tabs closest to the circle thing was totally sealed ( no " tunnel " for wires on the one side to fit in ) because it seemed to be " welded " closed when it was made ( cheap parts on a cheap scooter ) so I had to manage to break where it was sealed down to get the " micro " flap open lol. Anyway I got that done, turned the gas on, tried to start the scooter. Nothing, tried again,click, tried again half a rev.

On to step 2) since step 1 didn't fix it... I replaced the solenoid. Super easy.

Tried to start the scooter again, just a click, tried again, nothing, tried again,started up and so i took it for a drive around the block. it drove and idled fine but neither turning signal is working. (I wasnt ready for a longer drive, but will be in a couple hours) so its doing the same thing but Im wondering if maybe it took a couple tries starting it for the solenoid to get " acquainted " with its new surroundings? (my stupid rationalizing) or maybe i can blame it on the battery not being used for 9 days so i put it on the charger.

Im so tired of all that goes wrong with this damn scoot. It starting sometimes or after trying to start it several times sucks for me because I dont want to get stranded some where. Also since the kick start doesnt work and never has. has like no tension. So once its fully charged im taking it to the gym ( 15 min ride ) will be there for a couple hrs then driving it back ( hoping it starts to get home )

if i have more issues then its back to the drawing board but for now lets just see how the new crimp, new solenoid AND fully charged battery work... * crosses fingers *


>>>>>>>> EDIT / UPDATE <<<<<<<< It only took about 45 min to charge the battery full so that's good. I tried to start it for the gym and nothing, tried again, click, tried again and it started. So its doing the same thing even with rewire, new solenoid, new fully charged battery. While at the gym I was thinking...what am I doing between the time it doesnt start and it does start... what is the changing variable... and I realized that I never told you how I try to start my scooter or should I say keep trying to start it. I turn the ignition key on, then the kill switch on then I try to start it by holding the brake,pressing the starter button and starting to give it a tiny bit of gas. Now, when it doesnt work BEFORE i try to start it again I turn the ignition off and kill switch off then both back on again. Not really sure why I do this, but I kind of feel it like " clears it " to get it ready for another attempt at starting it. So while at the gym i was thinking maybe it doesnt start but after i keep trying it does that the kill switch has a loose wire and when i keep turning it on and off im hitting it just right to make it work after awhile. So I left the gym and i couldnt start it at ALL, tried like 10 times, nothing, no click, nothing. In my anger of possibly being stranded I tried the KICK START and it worked! I guess i wasnt doing it right before mad enough to try hard enough to get it started with that so i guess that works. At this point im wondering if it is one of these things that are wrong:

1) ignition switch
2) kill switch
3) starter

Stupid question, when you turn your scooter off and park it, maybe even leave it parked all night or for a couple days, do you have to turn the kill switch off or can you leave it on? will it drain anything? is just turning off the ignition good enough? do you have to turn it off before turning the ignition off? im asking because if the kill switch has a loose wire and is in a certain position to make it work and i dont move it from that position and its working after that maybe i can diagnose that as being the problem.

My blinkers not working ill deal with that later and use hand signals to turn for now LOL.

could the fuse in the thinner red wire going to the positive battery terminal possibly need to be changed to fix the starting problem and or the light problem. i have running lights and brake lights but the turn signal lights in front rarely work and in back rarely work but it seems they work a little more often than the front.

i was hoping to not have to open up the steering column to fix things since i never have and it looks like a royal pain in the arse but it may be coming to that point.

thanks for your help and taking the time to read my novel