Rebuilding Fuel System - Starting Over On My 50cc By straightbangin (Read 5,524 times)

[tvnacman]

Shannon will the starter crank when the kill switch is in the kill position . If it does then the kill switch is not causing the no crank symptom ( my vespa will do nothing with the kill switch in the kill position , my Chinese scooter will crank and not start in the kill position ). Does the horn work with the ignition switch in the run position , what about the brake light ? If so spray some WD40 into the signal switch and work it in all positions like a hundred times sometimes that brings them back .

John

[Alleyoop]

The killswitch is for emergencies really. For some reason your riding and something goes haywire you can hit the killswitch with your thumb. I NEVER USE the KILLSWITCH always just turn the key to OFF.
Now to find out WHICH PART OF THE SYSTEM is causing the problem Do this: When it clicks or does nothing STOP do not try again, GO STRAIGHT and jump the SOLENOID. That will tell you many things,

(1) if the Battery is just plain weak because you attempted to start it so many times and the short trip to work or wherever is not enough to charge the battery back up.
(2) If it spends your starter good then You know it is The SOLENOID or Back to the Ignition switch and or Killswitch.
(3) Also check the grounds the one from the Battery to the frame make sure the frame is nice and clean where it connects to.
(4) if you jump the SOLENIOD and it groans but then spins the starter then its the Starter.
Alleyoop

[straightbangin]

Shannon will the starter crank when the kill switch is in the kill position . If it does then the kill switch is not causing the no crank symptom ( my vespa will do nothing with the kill switch in the kill position , my Chinese scooter will crank and not start in the kill position ).

I have never even thought about trying to see if it will start with the kill switch in the kill position. I can try it though.

Does the horn work with the ignition switch in the run position , what about the brake light ? If so spray some WD40 into the signal switch and work it in all positions like a hundred times sometimes that brings them back . - John

I will try both and let you know.

The killswitch is for emergencies really. For some reason your riding and something goes haywire you can hit the killswitch with your thumb. I NEVER USE the KILLSWITCH always just turn the key to OFF.

good to know. im prop bearing it out messing with it all the time. ill just leave it on.

Now to find out WHICH PART OF THE SYSTEM is causing the problem Do this: When it clicks or does nothing STOP do not try again, GO STRAIGHT and jump the SOLENOID. That will tell you many things

i put a new solenoid in, but I will do this. The last time I did it with the old solenoid it started right up no problem , but hey it was a $10 part so no big deal to replace, if it wasn't broken no biggie since ill hang on to the spare (old one) for future trial and error needs on this scooter or another. I know from my last scooter that when you can't start it and you always use the kick start to start it, its a good way to eventually break the kick start over time. So i wont make that mistake again, but i was wondering by jump starting the solenoid, can it damage the rest of the scooter or the solenoid? i want to find out the real problem but until I do, lets say i jump the solenoid a couple times a day for a few days... is that bad for it/the scoot? just wondering.


(....GO STRAIGHT and jump the SOLENOID. That will tell you many things.....(1) if the Battery is just plain weak because you attempted to start it so many times and the short trip to work or wherever is not enough to charge the battery back up.
(2) If it spends your starter good then You know it is The SOLENOID or Back to the Ignition switch and or Killswitch.

im still keeping ignition or killswitch on the table since its a bran new solenoid but will try the jump and let you know the outcome

(3) Also check the grounds the one from the Battery to the frame make sure the frame is nice and clean where it connects to.

ya know Im not sure that i checked the ground/black? wire, just the red one. but i will.

(4) if you jump the SOLENIOD and it groans but then spins the starter then its the Starter.

ill check, last time i jumped the ( old solenoid ) it just started right up instantly and sounded like the most beautiful start ever, no groan or anything, but ill see what it does with the new solenoid.


Thanks for your help guys

[kz1000st]

Next time you go to start it squeeze both brakes.

[straightbangin]

check the grounds the one from the Battery to the frame make sure the frame is nice and clean where it connects to

result: looks fine

Does the horn work with the ignition switch in the run position?

result: yes

Does the brake light work with the ignition switch in the run position?

result: yes

Does the horn work with the ignition switch in the run position , what about the brake light ? If so spray some WD40 into the signal switch and work it in all positions like a hundred times sometimes that brings them back

Into the signal switch? Turning signal switch? Sorry Im having a brain fart on what you mean.

Shannon will the starter crank when the kill switch is in the kill position

result: no

KZ1000ST - Next time you go to start it squeeze both brakes.

result: tried it, nothing

jump the SOLENOID.....

result: jumping the solenoid, tried 3 times, first time tried to turn over, 2nd time just clicked, but may not have held the screw driver there long enough, third time turned over but the scooter didnt sound " thrilled about it " --- with my old solenoid , jumping it turned it / started it perfectly.

the front AND rear blinkers do not work, neither do the hazzard lights. brake lights and horn works. <<<

I’m bringing the screw driver to the gym with me in case I get stuck trying to come back to the gym…

Edit: glad I brought the screw driver to jump the solenoid so i could get back from the gym. it started fine doing this


Quick Question: How long can I leave the scooter undriven in the driveway before I should put it on the charger? When my scooter is working well I plan on driving it daily or every other day, maybe at the very least every 3 days if lots of rain... but wasn't sure how long I should go before it should really hit the charger. thanks!

[Alleyoop]

The binkers and turn signals, is probably the Flasher is bad, you can get a new relay at any auto parts store. Take the one off your scooter and take it with you and get one with the same number of connectors and 12V one.
They look like this:


As far as the battery is concerned If your rid to work is short and you are moving along slow it will not charge up the battery on short trips. So if the old SOLENOID turned the starter over really good and this one not so good I would put the old one back on. Now it you jump it and it clicks ONLY 3 THINGS either a bad SOLENOID, Weak battery or STARTER is going.
Alleyoop

[scatterbrained]

I've been following this post for awhile and in inclined to think it may be the ignition switch. To test it properly you will need a volt meter. Do you have one? The reason I say this is because you lost your lights as well.

[straightbangin]

Alley, where do I find the flasher? do i need to get into the steering column and look behind the turning signal switch?

Also im wondering if there could be a loose connection with the turning signal switch and /or with the ignition button. After seeing how crappy the wire was attached to the metal circle thing in the thin red wire with the fuse that goes to the battery, it makes me wonder how many other things on my scoot are barely hanging on by a thread. im hoping if i can get in and look at both i can see something loose that just needs to be tightened. I've never opened up the steering column and hope i dont break anything trying to get in LOL. the plastic tabs and stuff on this cheep scoot don't seem to like me LOL.

scatterbrained - its like a long saga isn't it? one thing after another with this scoot. ya im thinking the same.

i can't believe a scooter with only 400 miles on it can have this many issues, I guess letting it sit for a year can really do a job on it, well that and the fact its a cheap $950 scooter.

I found my volt meter, i think thats what its called, multimeter same thing? bought one over a yr ago, forgot i had it, have no idea how to use it. kind of scared it will zap me when i touch the thingees to things LOL.

so right now im looking at

1) find, disconnect, replace flasher
2) check attachments for turning signal switch
3) check attachments for ignition switch
4) possible new starter

i really hope its not the starter, as im guessing its not an easy thing to replace.

I'm guessing step one is open up the steering column and go from there huh?

ALLEY --- I think the scoot starts right up when I jump the solenoid, sometimes i think the screw driver just isnt touching both terminals well enough or im only holding it there for less then half a second because i dont want to get hit with sparks or a shock. (kind of a pansy about that )

When i jump the solenoid am i bypassing the starter switch AND the starter? and when i kick start it should i assume it bi passes the same things?

[scatterbrained]

Volt meter, multi meter same thing for this purpose. What kind do you have? Post a pic if you can as it will help me help you set the meter up right. There are thousands of meters by hundreds of company's. All are a little diffrent.

[scatterbrained]

I assume that your little scoot has a QMB139 50cc engine correct? If so do you have a service manual? If you do not then I have a good one on a PDF file that I could send you. The only way I can send it to you on this phone is through email. If you want it shoot me your email and I would be glad to send it. You seem like you know quite a bit about using your tools so maybe it will answer some questions for you.

[straightbangin]

its a generic no name scooter. chineese 50cc. the registration says " black scooter " lol. it goes by a million different names but it looks like this: evosales.com/pd_fuel_efficient_vehicle_100_mpg.cft

the service manual is in broken chinese/english mix. like it says under safety : " make sure not to brake to fast or will cause the moon to become impatient. " so basicly it was thrown into a chinese/english translator when printed but never looked at / edited. so its useless to me lol

my multi meeter was super cheap and looks like:

[scatterbrained]

I'm having problems posting pics. Black wire in very bottom hole. Red wire in center hole of meter. Set dial to 20 DCV. Now when you get the front cowling off and get access the the ignition plug touch black lead to neg on battery and red to red ignition plug wire. Should have around 12.5 volts. Next touch black lead to neg on battery agian and with ignition switch in the on posisition touch red lead from meter to black wire of ignition switch. Should have around 12.5 volts. Let me know what you find.

[straightbangin]

okay, to get to the wire of the ignition switch Im assuming I need to open up the steering column? damn it, never mind. i opened the multimeter thinking i had to put batteries in it and the screen fell out and a bunch of pieces shattered. no way to re attach it. blah. cheap piece of crap

ill just test things other ways (check to see if wires are loose) and replace parts little by little if need be ( live ive been doing )

thanks for trying to help though

maybe ill get another multimeter if i can get over to walmart today, lots to do today so ill see and get back to you guys tonight. thanks again

[Alleyoop]

i really hope its not the starter, as im guessing its not an easy thing to replace.

I'm guessing step one is open up the steering column and go from there huh?

ALLEY --- I think the scoot starts right up when I jump the solenoid, sometimes i think the screw driver just isnt touching both terminals well enough or im only holding it there for less then half a second because i dont want to get hit with sparks or a shock. (kind of a pansy about that )

When i jump the solenoid am i bypassing the starter switch AND the starter? and when i kick start it should i assume it bi passes the same things?

1. Actually the starter is easy to replace, it is held on with two bolts and the wire from the Solenoid, cannot mess it up.
2. When touching the two SOLENOID terminals to jump it IS exactly what happens INSIDE when you squeeze the Brake and push the start button. The Contact inside contacts both terminals. So jumping the Solenoid is no different than when you push the start button. All your doing is BYPASSING squeezing the brake and pushing the start button.
3. When you touch both terminals it will spark but expect that and just hold it on the terminal. I know the reaction is to pull away the screwdriver(HAHA). But then again you will have to do it again and again ANOTHER SPARK(HAHA). So live with ONE SPARK(HAHA).
4. Yes when you kickstart it you are not using the ELECTRIC start and all that is bypassed.
Alleyoop

[straightbangin]

thanks Alley, great explanation. i didnt get another multimeter at walmart. the $10 ones looked like crap and i didnt feel like paying $20-30 for a nicer one. oh well maybe some other time.

im wondering if it will be LESS of a pain in the arse to change the starter or to open up the steering column to check the connections on the switch. what do you think?

also where is the flasher thing im supposed to bring to the auto parts store to have replaced ? is it in the steering column ?

how long can my scooter sit in the driveway (not being started ) before i should feel the need to toss it on the charger?

thanks!