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Post by sillylittleboy on Apr 24, 2017 20:42:27 GMT -6
Now I wouldn't necessarily seek to go riding in the rain, but since I'm using my scooter as a great commuter I fear I may be caught off guard some evening/morning. I rode home from work one night in a fairly steady rain. It's only a 2.1 mile journey, but there are stop lights and other hold-ups. By the time I got home me and my clothes were as soaked as they could be. If I'd jumped into a pool I couldn't have been wetter. Even my skivvies had about a quart of water that could be wrung out of them.
So, I'm on a mission to find me some nice rain gear / rain poncho to have on hand (stored under seat or in trunk) for that "just in case" situation. When I do a search on Amazon (got Amazon Prime and been real happy with most everything I've bought from or thru Amazon) for "rain poncho" I get quite a few pages and quite a few listings AND a lot of the ponchos look to be adequately protective with hood and large poncho-shaped coverage.
There are some that are pretty cheaply-made, but also real cheap (200 ponchos = $122 -that's less than a dollar each) and disposable. That could be fun, cause you don't have to worry about drying them out or getting them rolled back up. But there are a number of non-disposable ones that range from $7-$20 or more. The majority seem to be in that $7-11 range.
For that price I'm just going to have to get one and see for myself. |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Apr 8, 2017 20:35:39 GMT -6
Kind of a late reply, tvnacman (or John - that's my name, too), but your link didn't exactly answer my question. It was some helpful and insightful info about untested vs. tested parts that you were selling. Did your small venture grow into a much larger one? Are you the John pictured and referenced on the NY Scooter Parts website? I see that they're advertising their parts as being tested parts.
If that is you, then congrats on your success. HA! It is you or someone posing as you, because I just bought "the tool" thru PayPal and it went to someone with your name on here as their email address.
So, once my new tool arrives and I need a little help figuring out exactly how best to utilize it for my valve adjustments, I can just contact you for help.
COOL! You will be hearing from me AND shipping my tool to me sometime soon. I'm the guy in Iowa who ordered it. |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Apr 8, 2017 20:10:59 GMT -6
My fun little troubleshooting nightmare learning experience has finally ended (fingers crossed). It started out with a starter that stopped turning after a few tries following a winter's hibernation. It sounded like a bad battery, but charging my battery to full capacity didn't resolve it. I thought for a minute that it might be the starter relay, but following those relay control wires back to the source I found the broken starter switch.
It took me two tries to get the right Kill Switch/Starter Button assembly. I even tried to add a wire and re-wire the wrong switch (same connectors but only 3 wires in the plug vs. 4 wires on the original), but the best I got was the starter being engaged whenever I applied the brake.
Hooked up the new (correct) switch and plugged everything in and turned on the ignition, the kill switch to on, and then hit the starter button and... NOTHING?!?! I've got the wiring diagram and I know what's happening with all the items that must connect to finally allow the 12vdc to connect to the starter relay (brake switch, ignition switch, kill switch) and turn that starter. I test the brake switch by doing a continuity between the two terminals and applying the brake... nothing! But when I hook a jumper across those two terminals and turn the ignition switch... BAM... it blows the fuse. That confused the heck out of me for a bit, but I finally figured out that it was blowing the fuse because at some point during "the process" one of those terminals became ground, which is just find so long as it's not connected to the other terminal or it would... blow the fuse.
So I waited until the ignition was turned on, the kills switch turned on, and then I put the jumper across the terminals for the brake switch, and then I hit the starter button and... YEA! It all worked. I'm re-wiring the brake switch loop to remove the left brake switch from that loop (since it's broken) and wiring in the right brake switch into that loop (it was passively connected before, now it'll be actively connected).
I definitely learned a lot about how these scooters work and wire AND I discovered some areas with serious "Chinese Manufacturing flaws" that I can and will be easily fixing. Starting with the wiring harness and working back there are places along that "cabled" group of wires where 3, 4, or 5 same color wires that are all tied together/connected by simply wrapping the wires around each other and then throwing some black electrical tape around it. I've got plenty of shrink tubes and a soldering iron with good solder. I'm going to clean up all those connections and make them much stronger and solid.
Now comes the real fun part - putting it all back together again. And I just realized that it might be useful for someone some day it I photo/video some of my efforts with the re-assembly. Getting the throttle cable connected back on the handle properly was a little tricky, but easy enough because... Thank Goodness for all of those who came before, been there before, and/or still hanging out there. Great resources here and on YouTube. Found one of the generic wiring diagrams on here that matched mine right down to the colors of the wires.
WOO HOO! I'll be back up and scooting around town by this time tomorrow evening. ose wires green wires are all tied together |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Apr 8, 2017 16:35:27 GMT -6
A few simple test working backwards will help pinpoint the problem. You can test your starter itself and potentially eliminate it by turning on your ignition switch, kill switch on, and then short across the relay terminals with a large metal screwdriver (be sure you're holding on to the handle, not the shaft) and see if the starter turns over and/or your engine starts up.
Next up would be the starter relay, which can easily be tested if you have some jumper wires and/or wires with alligator clips. Just connect the control input wires to your battery. Polarity shouldn't matter, it's just about getting the elctro-magnet engaged. You should be able to hear it click and if you've got the ignition switch and kill switches on, then again the starter should turn or start your engine.
That should at least start narrowing things down.
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 19, 2017 17:56:26 GMT -6
Woah...I just realized Chinese scooters are the Harmony of scooters, they are looked down upon and they are everywhere MIND EXPANDED! That is funny. I'm a string tickler, too. I play mostly acoustic and Ovation and Adamas (USA made) are my favorites. I remember the Harmony guitars trying to look like something they wasn't. Didn't Sears used to sell them?
Looks like you got a good deal AND it'll give you something to play with for awhile. Keep us posted on the diagnosis and prognosis. Is Vroom the brand?
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 19, 2017 17:06:06 GMT -6
Thanks... through this info, a little studying of the wire diagram, and a bit of poking around with a multi-meter and I have now determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the starter button that is bad. Just to prove me point the button will depress now but not spring back.
I watched a video on troubleshooting starting issues and the videographer had a test for the kill switch. Removed the two-wire plug from the CDI and using the audible continuity check setting of my multi-meter I attached one probe to ground and the other to the black wired terminal of that plug. With the key off and kill switch off = BEEEEEEP. When I turned the key on and the kill switch on = no sound.
Took readings off the four wires coming from the kill switch/starter switch unit and again the kill switch either connected the two terminals or didn't, but the starter switch did nothing. Whether I depressed it or not there was no continuity between it's two terminals.
Hey, this was a very educational endeavor. I learned all about the electrical ignition systems that will hopefully serve me well with any future starting issues. |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 17, 2017 20:57:43 GMT -6
FYI - This wiring diagram would appear to match my wiring right down to the colors of the wires. The control wires going into my starter relay are R/Y and G/Y just like this diagram: GY6 Generic Wiring Diagram |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 17, 2017 20:49:46 GMT -6
I thought I had my scooter fixed and it was the starter relay. I could have sworn I measured a voltage on the control wires going into the relay when I hit the starter switch... but now I'm not getting anything on those wires.
So, I've got a Tao Tao Powermax150, which overall is a pretty generic GY6 scooter. It starts fine if I jump across the terminals of the starter relay, but I'm not getting the control voltage (?) to the relay. I checked out several of the wiring diagrams featured on here and I'm trying to determine testing procedures to narrow down where that control signal to the starter relay is failing.
I've got two sets of two wires coming out of the kill switch/starter button box on the right handle. Two of those wires that are wrapped together coming from that switch both register ground whether the kills switch is on or off and whether or not I hit the starter button. That can't be right, is it? The other set of two wires register nothing (no voltage or switch to ground for either terminal). I know between this switch and the control wires going into the relay there is a brake switch in that circuit that must be completed to allow the current to flow onward to control the relay (why you need to apply the brake before hitting the start button or nothing happens) and I've been holding the brake on while I test voltage or continuity
What I'm trying to determine is what exactly should be coming out of the kill switch and starter button. In reviewing the wiring diagrams it looks like the kill switch when on just transfers ground from one side (terminal) to the other side (terminal). When I look at the starter switch, it initially appears to be doing the same thing - two terminals with ground on one terminal and then a wire that connects to the starter relay on the other terminal of the starter button. Either way it would appear that each of those switches (kill switch, starter button) is simply connecting the two terminals of that switch when turned (kill switch) or button depressed (starter button) or perhaps passing on a voltage/circuit to those control terminals of the relay.
Any suggestions on how to test or determine where the failure might be occurring. I'm ready to just replace my current "Kill swtich/starter button" switch box, but it kind of looks like a pain in the butt to get to it and make any changes. So I'd really hate it if I replace that switch box and it doesn't fix the problem. |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 13, 2017 11:53:25 GMT -6
Yea, it was the starter relay. I jumped across the terminals and the starter kicked over and it started up. That's weird, cause I'd never imagine that a relay would go bad and especially after only a year. It must have been a bad one. New one is out for delivery right now.
It did start, but one issue I've had since day one is that it only starts right up on the first push of the starter when it's still warm. Even after sitting for only a few hours it usually takes at least 3 or 4 (or more) cranks on the starter to get it to start up. It seems like I've read something about this issue and that maybe it's the CDI?
I've got this baby all stripped down naked (all body panels removed), so I'm looking to take care of any internal needs before I put it all back together. A valve adjustment, spark plug replacement, carb tune-up, plus gear and engine oil replacement are all on my list right now.
Any other suggestions? |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 8, 2017 22:45:43 GMT -6
Parts for Scoots is good. I don't have first hand experience with Scrappy Dog, but do have a look at www.get2itparts.com since you mentioned buying all your scooter parts in one place. I swear by Scrappy Dog and their excellent customer service, but that site you provided has a LOT of parts for a LOT of brands. Excellent resource. Thanks!
I must concur with jct842 that it might be both a time saver (time is money) and a money saver to cut your losses with this one and just get a new one. I know if I got 9 years use out of my Chinese scooter, then I'd feel like I got more than my money's worth. I paid less than $900, so nine years would equate to $100/year (plus parts and oil and such). That's a whole lot less money per year than what I expect out of my used auto purchases. With autos it equates to almost $1000/year (e.g. if I bought a car for $5000 and it lasted me at least five years, then I'd figure I got my money's worth and could now sell it and recoup a big chunk of that money back.
Good Luck!
Oh... and YouTube is your best friend. Did you try any searches on there with brief descript of your problem as the search term. I big you'll get something.
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 8, 2017 22:14:31 GMT -6
So when I ordered my new starter relay, I figured it was a good time to pick up a few other parts/spares. They offered this "Upgraded Racing CDI Box" for $20, so I thought it was worth a shot. Then after I ordered it I found this video review:
This guy seemed pretty thorough and unbiased with his testing of the three CDI units. His results with the Racing CDI was no improvement in performance and maybe even a reduction, plus it also created cold start issues (took more cranks to get it started after a day or two of inactivity).
I had thought I'd read something about an upgrade on the CDI box will help with cold start issues. Mine has always taken at least 4-5 cranks on the starter before it starts up. It runs fine after that and starts up quick when less than eight hours of inactivity.
Has anyone had any luck with CDI box upgrades? |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Mar 8, 2017 21:42:58 GMT -6
Took my time getting to this troubleshoot, which the cold weather returning with a little snow helped remove any immediate need to get my scoot going. I just had a feeling it wouldn't be anything super simple like a dead battery.
Followed the troubleshoot guide/info I had gathered for checking a "no start issue" and what everything pointed to I had trouble believing. But I checked and double-checked. I thought it might be the kill switch or starter switch, but I checked the control leads running into the starter relay and when I push the start button I get 12 VDC on the starter solenoid control inputs. I've got a good ground all around on the scooter and I've got the 12 VDC (well, 12.95 VDC) on the battery which is connected to one side of the relay (read fine there). Can't get that VDC to appear on the other terminal of the relay, even though the relay should be clicking/connecting with the control input.
Thanks crwford for the "short across the relay terminals" test to insure the starter works. I remembered that and thought about it after I left my storage place (a corner of friend's garage). I'll have to try that tomorrow.
It just seems odd to me that a relay would go bad that quickly. My scooter isn't even a full year old AND I know what's going on inside of a relay and they're not usually prone to failures. Maybe I just got a bad relay. Replacements are only $10 and now that I have the scoot all stripped down and naked (removed all body parts), I can do a few other needed maintenance efforts (valve adjustment, carb adjustment, oil changes, and whatever else is needed).
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Post by sillylittleboy on Feb 17, 2017 22:30:45 GMT -6
Howdy Scooter guys and gals. I haven't been out here since I took my scooter over to a friend's garage for winter storage. I live in Iowa and the winters CAN be brutal, but not this year. We have got 74 degrees in February and the warm weather will remain until the end of February.
ANYWAY... I may have been a bit remiss with my winter prep. One thing I should have done was bring the battery inside. I had planned on getting a better upgraded battery and this might be what is needed. I had stopped over to visit my scooter every couple of weeks to start it up and let it run for a few minutes. I neglected to do so for probably a month (or more). I rolled it out of the garage and turned the key, clicked on the kill switch, depressed the brake, and then hit the electrical starter button. It cranked the engine over a few times and then it just stopped cranking at all. It acted like the battery was dead, so I ran some jumper cables to it from a running car (should the car NOT be running when jumping this battery?)
The jump got a couple more cranks out of the starter and then nothing. Lights and horn work, but nothing out of the starter.
I've been scanning through a couple hundred posts on here AND even did some searches for "start" and
"won't start" and a bad battery is a common theme AND/OR the first thing you test on your trouble-shooting highway. Probably akin to Computer Troubleshooting 101 - "Insure the computer is plugged into the appropriate electrical socket.
I had thought that might be my issue, but when I got the battery back home, I connected my multi-meter and with no load it's measuring 12.84 VDC, which isn't too far off the recommended 13.X VDC for no load check.I believe should be over 13 VDC, so I'll charge it up for a bit (hooked up to trickle charger)and take my meter for a load test and any other meter testing needed.t I recall reading that the no load voltage should be over 13 VDC. I'll charge it for a bit and then do a load test tomorrow. I've got the battery hooked up to a tickle charger now.
I'll have to run some tests on the starter, too. This is my first winter with a new TaoTao Powermax150 that ran from spring thru fall with no issues at all. I think I've got a good trouble-shooting course laid out before me, but I also know there are many highly knowledgeable and very experienced scooter-dudes and dudettes who might have some insights. I'll check in the AM before I head out and keep y'all posted and share my issue and fix. |
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Post by sillylittleboy on Feb 17, 2017 20:04:24 GMT -6
Hi Kalee, my apologies for taking so long to respond. I was hibernating for the winter, so was kind of incognito during this time. YES, I have been to the Botanical Center in Des Moines MANY times. I've seen it change over the years and see the changes throughout the year (seasonal and holiday ones). It can be especially nice to take a walk thru it's tropical gardens, when it's 20 below zero outside.
But not this year... VERY mild winter and I think it's pretty much over.
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Post by sillylittleboy on Oct 13, 2016 19:26:45 GMT -6
Really? So my cold starting issues might be my battery? Every morning when I go to start my scooter it takes a few cranks of the starter before the engine fires and starts up. I just figured it was part of the whole gravity-feed fuel system and I just needed to get some fuel flowing/primed to the engine before it'll start.
It's nothing drastic, but I'd say it probably takes maybe 5-7 times of letting it crank for maybe 2-3 seconds each before that spark plug finds enough fuel to cause an internal combustion. I'm looking at maybe getting a new battery and if it'll help get me started quicker, then I'm all over it.
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