Final Gears By runningslow (Read 2,479 times)

[runningslow]

Anyone have any experience changing the final gears?

www.partsforscooters.com/Gear_set_gy6

I'm thinking about it to bump up the cruising speed up a bit and I don't really care too much about loosing at the bottom end.

I know I have plenty of other things to fiddle with first, like a longer belt and changing rollers/sliders, but I think I'll ultimately end up doing this, too.

[Alleyoop]

runningslow,
What a coincidence, I just ordered a set myself I got the 16/37 set, my Ice Bear Trike has 13/40 gears and I know one other Trike owner that just put in 15/38 and gained around 8mph over the 13/40 gears. I want to be able to cruise at 55 with low RPMS and still have something left over.
Alleyoop

[wolfhound]

Interesting that this subject has come up. I ordered what I thought would be a transmission
from Rapid Jim ( he thought that was what we had ordered too) for my Ice Bear 150-8. I assumed that it would be a complete housing. What Ice Bear shipped was a collection of
the gears, no bearings, no housing , thrown loose in a box. This was what we had come to expect from Ice Bear but should not be construed as a criticism of Jim who handled his part
of the transaction quickly and professionally. I had already planned to offer the gears for sale so if any one needs them please contact me.

[Alleyoop]

Wolfhound,
If you notice the Tranny is part of the entire engine. The engine actuall splits in half and the tranny part are just your gears and shaft to drive the drive sprocket. Unless your case was cracked that would be all I would expect as well. But if you need half the case due to being cracked which would result in oil leaking then the only thing to do would just go with a new engine.

What I am doing is just replaceing the Final Drive Gears for more top end. Right now I have run out of gearing with the 13/40 gears. I did pick up some more mph when I changed the 24 tooth front sprocket to a 29 tooth but I am out of gearing there as well.
Alleyoop

[wolfhound]

Thanks, Alley Oop, for clearing that up. As it is I use the IB150-9 for mail box runs and it should last a long time or until I part it out, which ever comes first. I am still working on getting a trike that is dependable, saving my bucks right now towards that goal. I envy you your burgy trike!!!!!! My TGB 150 Del. has spoiled me. 1000 miles in 7 months without a burp!!
It had 5500 on it when I got it and now has 6500. That is the sort of service that I, as a non wrencher, am looking for. Sooner or later I will find the right trike. (That Burgy is awsome!! Such a deal you got!!!!)

[runningslow]

Oct 13, 2010 15:13:39 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

runningslow,
What a coincidence, I just ordered a set myself I got the 16/37 set, my Ice Bear Trike has 13/40 gears and I know one other Trike owner that just put in 15/38 and gained around 8mph over the 13/40 gears. I want to be able to cruise at 55 with low RPMS and still have something left over.
Alleyoop

Alleyoop, please, let me know how it goes and what it takes to change them out! Mine won't be going into a trike, but the outcome should be similar.

My goal is to hit a true 60-65, but cruise comfortably at 55. Right now, I'm able to max out around 55-57 @ about 6500rpms. I think with a longer belt and a roller change I should be able to squeeze out a few more mph. So, if a gear change could net me about 5mph, I'd be a happy camper!

[jct842]

with my 150 I would love to be able to hit a true 60-65, but, I am not willing to give up any of the terrific acceleration I have now. It is a ball to ride the way it is. occasionally I can get 60 or so if the air is right and it likes running at maybe 45-50 so it like most all 150s is not a highway machine. I would not be afraid to take it on a long ride if my body would co-operate but not on a 55mph road unless there were no other traffic. WOT is around 7000rpm as is now./ john

[Alleyoop]

runningslow,
Yes, changing the gears you should be able to get at least 5 more mph easy without giving up much in take offs. It will just rev a little higher but you should be able to control that with weights. One guy went from 13/40 gears to 15/38 and gained about 8mph just going up 2 teeth for the front and down 2 teeth on the rear. That is damn good if you ask me:)
Alleyoop

[dannicus]

Oct 14, 2010 6:23:17 GMT -6 runningslow said:

Oct 13, 2010 15:13:39 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

runningslow,
What a coincidence, I just ordered a set myself I got the 16/37 set, my Ice Bear Trike has 13/40 gears and I know one other Trike owner that just put in 15/38 and gained around 8mph over the 13/40 gears. I want to be able to cruise at 55 with low RPMS and still have something left over.
Alleyoop

Alleyoop, please, let me know how it goes and what it takes to change them out! Mine won't be going into a trike, but the outcome should be similar.

My goal is to hit a true 60-65, but cruise comfortably at 55. Right now, I'm able to max out around 55-57 @ about 6500rpms. I think with a longer belt and a roller change I should be able to squeeze out a few more mph. So, if a gear change could net me about 5mph, I'd be a happy camper!

Runningslow,
I was just going over your post and I think a longer belt would hurt you. The taller top gear u'd end up would put you even farther from peak power. You'd prolly get more top speed with a lower overall ratio so your bike is in the meat of it's output at top speed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Alleyoop]

Yes if you put on a belt that is TO long you will loose top end. Reason being is even though the belt may climb to the edge of the Variator it will not be pulled all the way down in the Clutch Pulley therefore losing top end.

You will always run out of gearing and Variator size. That is why you can buy performance Variators that are bigger in diameter to get the belt to climb higher for more top end using the same belt size. Same thing with the gears, they work just like your CVT and Clutch pulley same principle. Lower ratio will have a great take off but lower top end than he already has. He just wants about another 5 miles per hour. So when he counts the teeth on the front gear and rear gear he can just go 2 higher on the front and 2 lower in the rear and he will be where he wants to be.
His rpms can be controlled with weights depending on how his engine reacts to the taller gears which were only changed by two teeth each.
Alleyoop

In my hot rod days used to run 389 gears and end of quarter mile was doing 119mph. Put in 456 gears for better take off and better quarter mile ETs but it would run out of gear at 107mph would not go any faster than that.

[dannicus]

Oct 14, 2010 21:57:32 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

Yes if you put on a belt that is TO long you will loose top end. Reason being is even though the belt may climb to the edge of the Variator it will not be pulled all the way down in the Clutch Pulley therefore losing top end.

You will always run out of gearing and Variator size. That is why you can buy performance Variators that are bigger in diameter to get the belt to climb higher for more top end using the same belt size. Same thing with the gears, they work just like your CVT and Clutch pulley same principle. Lower ratio will have a great take off but lower top end than he already has. He just wants about another 5 miles per hour. So when he counts the teeth on the front gear and rear gear he can just go 2 higher on the front and 2 lower in the rear and he will be where he wants to be.
His rpms can be controlled with weights depending on how his engine reacts to the taller gears which were only changed by two teeth each.
Alleyoop

In my hot rod days used to run 389 gears and end of quarter mile was doing 119mph. Put in 456 gears for better take off and better quarter mile ETs but it would run out of gear at 107mph would not go any faster than that.

Not exactly sure if you're responding to my post. IMO, He's not running out of gearing when he's pushing 55-57 @ 6500rpm. He's hitting a wall where his power @ 6500rpm can't push him further. He needs lower gearing to make use of the power up higher in rpms. These things put out peak horsepower @ around 7500 on average. It's gonna be only around 1 hp difference, if that. So top speed isn't gonna be a huge improvement without some other measures to actually make more power.

[Alleyoop]

He is hitting the wall most likley because of his weights, that he can control he can run 8000 rpms at 55-57 if he wants to but anything over 7500 rpms is a waste closer to 7000 rpms would be better and he can get there with just changing his weights. But with changing the gearing he can do 6500 rpms and be running at a much higher speed.
Alleyoop

[dannicus]

Oct 14, 2010 22:53:38 GMT -6 Alleyoop said:

He is hitting the wall most likley because of his weights, that he can control he can run 8000 rpms at 55-57 if he wants to but anything over 7500 rpms is a waste closer to 7000 rpms would be better and he can get there with just changing his weights. But with changing the gearing he can do 6500 rpms and be running at a much higher speed.
Alleyoop

If he tunes his variato to run 55-57 @ 8000rpms he IS changing his gearing. Just via a different road.

Either way, gearing won't change the power output of the engine. If he won't pull higher than 55-57 with 6500rpm with stock gearing, there's no way he'll pull any higher speed @ 6500rpm; nomatter how you gear it.

[runningslow]

Gentlemen. I know there will be some experimentation, trial & error. Experimenting with gears will be the last thing I do.

For anyone who isn't aware and been reading my Matrix: Rebuilding thread, the scooter in question has a 161QML motor, which is at least 169cc. However, a 161QMK is 169cc. The only reference to a 161QML I can find on google is a 189cc trike... one of these days I'll determine the stroke and find out for sure.

Unless my Tach is off, I'm not getting over 6500 rpm. Period. Its like I'm hitting a limiter, but I don't think it is. It may creep up to about 6750, but I haven't been able to make it hit 7000. That's telling me I need to change weights.

Ally, while its not a "performance" variator (to my knowledge), the factory variator in my new motor is already has a 115mm OD, which is the same as the Dr. Pulley and Prodigy variators. I haven't done the Sharpie test to see how high its climbing, but with only an 835 belt, I don't think its reaching the top. I don't know what my stock weights are, but I do have some others to try. I may mess around with those this weekend.

Of course, I bet my top speed would improve if I lost about 40 lbs, too. (<---Which is something I'm going to try and do in the coming months.)

[dannicus]

Oct 15, 2010 7:12:50 GMT -6 runningslow said:

Gentlemen. I know there will be some experimentation, trial & error. Experimenting with gears will be the last thing I do.

For anyone who isn't aware and been reading my Matrix: Rebuilding thread, the scooter in question has a 161QML motor, which is at least 169cc. However, a 161QMK is 169cc. The only reference to a 161QML I can find on google is a 189cc trike... one of these days I'll determine the stroke and find out for sure.

Unless my Tach is off, I'm not getting over 6500 rpm. Period. Its like I'm hitting a limiter, but I don't think it is. It may creep up to about 6750, but I haven't been able to make it hit 7000. That's telling me I need to change weights.

Ally, while its not a "performance" variator (to my knowledge), the factory variator in my new motor is already has a 115mm OD, which is the same as the Dr. Pulley and Prodigy variators. I haven't done the Sharpie test to see how high its climbing, but with only an 835 belt, I don't think its reaching the top. I don't know what my stock weights are, but I do have some others to try. I may mess around with those this weekend.

Of course, I bet my top speed would improve if I lost about 40 lbs, too. (<---Which is something I'm going to try and do in the coming months.)

Yeah, I'm sure you'd notice if you hit the rev limiter. These things don't have the complexity of the high end bikes with "soft" limiters.

Heh, time to hit the gym!